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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The Carbon Tax was introduced under the FF-Green government in 2010.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    But do they grow them here thou.

    Cant be flying in little fancies and luxuries from anywhere now can we



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,147 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    but we can fly our beef and dairy and live pigs and calves to every corner of the Earth, that's fine is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Small costs like a €35k EV and another €30k for retrofitting to meet the fantasy goals of the Climate Action Plan. Those small costs?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,409 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You must have an old house if it'll costs 100k to bring it up to spec.

    Any modern house would be much cheaper to retrofit to run off electric heating

    You can refuse to invest in your own property, when your property value is way lower because it's an unloved old building with a BER rating from the 1970s, people will be taking the price of the investment off the price they're prepared to pay for the house

    I'm sure you'll come back now and say that you have no intention of selling your house ever so the property value is meaningless, you still need to spend money on the upkeep of a house or it costs you more in the long run

    The government will be doling out grants and subsidies to people as the years progress to get the national housing stock up to spec, you strike me as the kind of person who would refuse assistance to renovate your house even if it was given for free and would find some reason to turn it down and blame it on someone else.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    Well my response was to someone saying that everyone should just live in the city when realistically the trend is everyone who can is getting out of cities to avoid catastrophic rents/house prices, have a better quality of life, nicer house for far less money, an actual garden, better access to schools, less traffic, less crime, better environment to raise a family, etc

    Seriously have you seen the state of most of the housing stock in our city centers and the amount of general anti social behavior especially on public transport? Why would a couple who can only afford a 300k house move to some tiny house in the sh!ttiest part of Dublin instead of out to the countryside? Would you honestly do that just for environmental reasons?



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    Says the city slicker that has gas at the flick of a switch and a bus at the end of the road.

    As for Healy-Ray and Fitzmaurice, both shrewd businessmen who have done very well for themselves outside politics, not like the city muppets that never paid a wage in their lives, with stupid schoolkid American accents thinking it makes them more intelligent or the few others that can't even string a sentence together.

    What are the likes of you going to do now that all the major transport projects are shoved so far out that they will never be built, maybe if you concentrated on something like that instead of having a go at people living in the country every chance you get you would be better off.

    Low IQ in rural Ireland, I suggest you take a look around your own city before you make a comment like that again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,077 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So basically they do not have a clue where the money required will come from to fund these timescales they have laid out. With there being no magic money tree do you somehow believe that people do not see where it is supposed to come from ?

    They see they are not only going to be taxed to provide it, but are also going to be coerced by rising energy charges to buy expensive electric cars when their isn`t even a guarantee that there will be an adequate supply to charge, them or even an ability in many cases to without further outlay. No great assurances of the lights staying on or heating for their homes while also being expected to shell out for retrofitting.

    I know I said there is no magic money tree, but the economics of this on the timescale that has been laid down would not just require one tree. It would take a large forest. As I said, on that people can do the maths and separate fantasy, similar to the 1 million electric cars by 2030 from the reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,147 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I live in a council estate, it would prob put the fear of god into any rural dweller, people wear tracksuits around here etc.

    But no I wouldn't live in rural Ireland by hook or by crook. My point was that people go on about living in the countryside being greener than city dwelling, but sure if we were all to do it the countryside would be in an even worse state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,147 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,077 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If you want to be taken seriously at your word then it is a very good idea and it brings the benefit of accountability to those that are providing the revenue that it is being used for what it was promised



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nothing more ironic than Dubs complaining about who rural folks elect when they consistently elect the likes of Bertie Ahern, RBB, Eamon Ryan, Paul Murphy, Clare Daly etc. etc. 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,718 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, here we are again, expert opinion versus an anonymous internet poster with skin in the game. Think I will stick with the expert opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,718 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We are getting rid of traffic through cycling, walking and public transport infrastructure. The 15-minute city is the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    You see they are not experts, just a talking shop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    A lot of houses built in the last boom 2000-2007 require some serious investment to bring them up to the BER B2 rating that the Action Plan requires. You can look it up easy enough on the SEAI BER search function and checking various houses for sale on myhome.ie for sale. There's a house for sale near me built in 2005 which is currently C2. The BER report says to bring it up to the spec it needs: air source heat pump and controls, new windows and new doors, roof wrapping and insulation. Probably talking €10k+ for the heat pump system, another €5k-€10k or so for energy efficient doors and windows and maybe €1.5k-€2k for the roof wrap and insulation. The report also recommends a solar panel installation at another €6k or so. So roughly €25k for all that on a relatively new house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    It would be rather nice if we were self sufficient energy wise, no?

    Parking the "green agenda" it is absurd that we spend billions importing energy when we have huge untapped renewable energy resources domestically.



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    Did you write this before all the big projects were cancelled?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,718 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The only big project cancelled was the Eastern Bypass.

    The existing delays to Metrolink, Bus Connects and DART+ were incorporated into the plan i.e. the plan didn't delay them, it just took account of the design and consultation progress since the last plan.

    DART Underground has been delayed, but in the context of the Glasnevin interchange, that may not be an issue. Better to wait to see how that proposal works.

    Cycling and pedestrian infrastructure have been advanced.

    Roads have been deprioritised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Or €276 per month for 10 years. Less than most people's car payment and increases the value of the home.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is being used for what was promised so what exactly is your problem? You want to introduce extra overheads and costs to achieve something that is already happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    many wont be willing or able to take on the extra debt, its a dreadful plan, and wont work



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Huge money in greenwashing now. Great industry to get into over the next few years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    ESB don't want it, they don't want the bother of connecting up solar panels, sh1t digesters and small Irish owned wind turbines, they don't want anyone getting a discount, how the f##k can they update the fleet to new model Land rover Defenders if people want money off, how will the great grandchildren of the current staff get employed with the company if they are allowing every soap to plug into the grid :), it'll never do



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Not sure what you don't get about this being extra debt on people who already have mortgages, bills and other debts and costs to pay. €276 p.m. for 10 years is a huge amount of money and equals c.€33k. And for the Plan to work we need people to buy EVs as well so they'll have the car loan on top of this. The energy upgrades won't pay for themselves in that time.

    The average heat and electricity bills in Ireland is c.€1,600 per annum. Let's go wild and say that all these upgrades save you €1k per year on electricity bills (they won't but let's go along with it anyway). You've coughed up €33k but at €1k annual savings it'll take 33 years to pay itself back. Oh and the heat pump will need to replaced in that time. Not very attractive is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    And that is only the start of it, as soon as you upgrade the insulation and air tightness then you need to think about mechanical ventilation and radon barriers on older houses plus the carnage of ripping out windows and pulling up floors will cause if you are actually living in the house, there's a reason proper energy upgrades only get done when a house changes hands and the new owner is willing to pay to change everything and even at that is unlikely to get an A-rated BER. All that is counting on the base house structure being in good condition also, energy upgrades done wrong can exacerbate any dampness issues you might have had.

    The current SEAI grant system isn't fantastic either, the approved contractors are more than happy to add on a healthy profit knowing you cant use anyone else reducing the benefits of the grant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    100%. Existing houses are just not suited to this but that's the plan. They weren't built for heat pumps or electric water heaters and the likes.

    The current SEAI grant system isn't fantastic either, the approved contractors are more than happy to add on a healthy profit knowing you cant use anyone else reducing the benefits of the grant.

    It's a scam to be honest. I did my attic insulation over the last few months. There's a €400 grant for it from the SEAI - great. Got a couple of quotes coming in at c.€1.4k so around €1,000 after the grant. Robbery. I bought the insulation and did the job myself for c.€450. But because I didn't use the SEAI contractors I couldn't get the grant even though they were charging exorbitant rates for the job. Farce.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Dont forget the replacement of your ev battery as well. Probably multiple times. Any costing on that yet.

    Yes yad have to replace the an ice anyways but cost difference there anyone?



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