The Irish protocol.

downcow · 10-11-2021 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118146711#Comment_118146711

So stop the fantasy dancing.

will the Eu cut ni out of the sm?

the Uk don’t have the power to control that. That’s entirely in the gift of the Eu.

downcow · 10-11-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148156#Comment_118148156

Crocodiles might be closer. Where do you think we learnt that 😂

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2021 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148331#Comment_118148331

No Protocol, no trade deal. No trade deal it is back to a Hard Brexit scenario with the north out of the SM and CU.

That's the bottom line, the damage will be self inflicted. The UK does have the power, they will cause it by their action.

trashcan · 10-11-2021 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148331#Comment_118148331

You’re right it is. And it’s looking increasingly like the UK Govt is trying to push the EU into a corner to achieve that very outcome by looking to repudiate the very deal they negotiated to keep NI in the SM. How will you feel if that does come to pass ? That hard border could come at a very high price ( and I’m not talking about violence - look at what the business people are saying.)

Seth Brundle · 10-11-2021 11:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148313#Comment_118148313

You've asked this before and given appropriate answers. At this stage, you need to get yourself checked out for alzheimer's given how often people remind you of certain facts which you seem to forget soon after.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148331#Comment_118148331

NI currently is following SM rules. It is only as a result of the UK's actions that this favourable position for NI is being put in jeopardy. It is completely in the UK's power to controlwhether NI remains in the SM! But again, you know this already or else your memory loss is kicking in again.

downcow · 10-11-2021 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148413#Comment_118148413

Do you really believe a hard border is coming? No chance. Eu will be proposing the very stuff Uk we’re proposing last year ie digital, trusted trader, etc

downcow · 10-11-2021 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148645#Comment_118148645

Sure don’t you bother answering any questions

11-11-2021 3:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148701#Comment_118148701

Will unionists say No to those proposals again?

KildareP · 11-11-2021 6:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148313#Comment_118148313

This has been done to death several times in this thread. But you'll keep dragging it up every few weeks pretending it hasn't been made and challenged before. Just like we keep seeing consent raised time and time again about why the NIP must be scrapped without those making the argument accepting Brexit itself did not receive consent.

I'm still waiting to hear why a border across Ireland does not breach the GFA but one in the Irish Sea drives a coach and horses through it?

Bigus · 11-11-2021 7:58am

Today on the 11th Nov 21, Taking a lot of opinions ,both journalistic and political into account, I now think Frosty and Johnson (to use a colloquial term )have shot their load , and completely misjudged the mood .

The disastrous and quantifiable consequences of Invoking article 16 now , would not only be totally stupid , but totally predictably stupid , which would be therefore unforgivable by the UK public, following the considered consequences which the EU have been patiently preparing for.

The Uk must be the worst negotiators in the the world, as regards subtlety.

Now, the protocol appears to be gaining exponential positive support on the ground in NI daily. (Šefčovič took the time to find out the mood in NI on the ground unlike Frosty)

So, every week that goes by , makes binning the successful Protocol less achievable , and at this stage unrealistic , showing up the UK negotiators as the bullshitters that they are . Either that or totally stupid , which is not an outside possibility.

Many, many years ago I was told first hand by a theology professor, that in negotiation, “there’s nothing more dangerous than a Stupid man “ I’ve lived by this advice successfully and found it most helpful, However I would now add that something more dangerous could be many stupid-er men .

VinLieger · 11-11-2021 8:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148701#Comment_118148701

The technology to police the border with 300+ crossings doesn't exist and every time it was suggested by the UK the EU asked for examples and were met with crickets, FFS are we really back to this fantasy land stuff?

Suckler · 11-11-2021 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149317#Comment_118149317

They'll be back touting the NI-Scotland bridge again next.

Suckler · 11-11-2021 8:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149299#Comment_118149299

A "Stupid Man" but clever enough to know a bit of anti-EU rhetoric would paper over some current scandals/issues for him and his cohorts.

The cynic in me see's it as a way to offload NI for Boris & Co and finally make it ROI's sole problem.

VinLieger · 11-11-2021 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149376#Comment_118149376

Nah Boris has that sorted with his round about for three tunnels..... under the isle of man

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/underground-roundabout-beneath-isle-of-man-proposed-to-link-three-irish-sea-tunnels-23-02-2021/

Seth Brundle · 11-11-2021 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148718#Comment_118148718

You have asked these questions previously and were given the same fact-based answers each time. Have you forgotten (again!) or are you simply trolling?

downcow · 11-11-2021 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148383#Comment_118148383

So answer the question. Will Eu put the 80,000 checks on the island of Ireland then when the can’t have them at Larne? Simple question

downcow · 11-11-2021 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149420#Comment_118149420

I might be stupid or forgetful but would it not be quicker to just tell me that if the scenario plays out that many are predicting here, ie ‘hard brexit’, will the Eu place the checks on the uk/roi border? It’s very simple yes/no. I smell a rat, why everyone is going the route of big long rants about how I already know the answer, rather than a simple answer.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2021 10:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149471#Comment_118149471

No, we will do it on behalf of the other member states, if we have to and then move immediately, as a government to call for a border poll, which will be impossible to resist for a UK getting destroyed on the world stage,

Bring it in if you wish, I said before the cul de sac Unionism marched itself into has no way out that doesn't damage the Union,...Protocol stays, north and south inexorably come closer and closer together - Protocol goes the people turn on Unionism and vote for a UI as the secure future.

Suckler · 11-11-2021 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149439#Comment_118149439

Wasn't the crux of Brexit - "Control of our Borders" ? If there's an open door via Belfast, the UK themselves would be quick to close it I imagine?

Seth Brundle · 11-11-2021 10:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149471#Comment_118149471

Should the UK breach the NIP and therefore the TCA which would result in a hard border then the likelihood is that the EU will look towards trade sanctions rather than a hard border on the island. These would have a much greater effect on the UK than any other method.

However, if the UK is determined to have a full on hard Brexit then it is they who would be creating the need to a hard border, not the EU. Would the requirement for a hard border be imposed by the EU to control it's borders? In time, that is likely and something most Irish people would see as necessary and would probably be done in tandem with the UK posts returning. However it is purely as a result of British actions and in all likelihood would, as you love to criticise Varadkar for mentioning, lead to a return to violence in NI (because border posts are in reality a target for some). For this reason, the EU will do whatever it can to avoid that scenario.

But you know all this and simply want to waste people's time by asking the same questions over and over again.

steddyeddy · 11-11-2021 11:03am

So there's effectively no real opposition to the NI protocol outside the same extremist attention seekers?

Also Frost and Boris have been revealed to be simply full of hot air with their threats. NI is mostly happy with the protocol, the EU are happy with it and the US are happy with it. It's irrelevant what the extremists want.

11-11-2021 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149812#Comment_118149812

Yes - apart from the fact that the lunatics are running both the Westminster and Stormont asylums.

Furze99 · 11-11-2021 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147626#Comment_118147626

I can't disagree with much of what you say above. Well let's work towards that goal in a constructive way by finding means to work together. And avoiding the divisive issues.

Seth Brundle · 11-11-2021 11:19am

So there's effectively no real opposition to the NI protocol outside the same extremist attention seekers?

No, that is not true. There are others against the NI Protocol whose business has been disrupted such as drug dealers.

Furze99 · 11-11-2021 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149317#Comment_118149317

Very little likelihood that 300 border crossings would be policed. If we in Republic have to implement border controls on behalf of the EU, then we'd just be looking at the principal motorway, national primary and regional road crossings. That would leave many minor road crossings with random checks and some would use them but hauliers would be sticking to the official crossings.

BluePlanet · 11-11-2021 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148331#Comment_118148331

Are you watching the news?

It's the UK that want to scupper the NIP, not the EU.

It's your own government that are trying to cut you out of the SM.

fash · 11-11-2021 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149265#Comment_118149265

By my count:

the existence of NI didn't have consent;

Brexit didn't have consent;

The NIP didn't have consent;

The threat to renege on/ replace the NIP doesn't have consent.

Why only focus on one of those I wonder?

If "we are where we are" regarding the existence of NI, why are we not "we are where we are" regarding the NIP?

Slightly hypocritical isn't it?

BluePlanet · 11-11-2021 11:24am

You may remember all the talk from Brexiteers regarding a technological solution to the NI border. Of course it was all a fantasy but one that will be brought up again.

My suggestion: Why doesn't the UK implement their proposed technological border solution for goods moving between GB and NI? Demonstrate that it works before proposing it to the EU27.

Surely that's sensible?

11-11-2021 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148280#Comment_118148280

"checks are not required at either"

This is the crux though. When the English Nationalists (goaded on by the UKIP pot stirrer and cheerled by the far-seeing ranks of the DUP) had their hissy fit at the EU and decided to throw their toys out of the pram, at that point some kind of check between the EU and the third country (UK) became inevitable. There are checks between the EU and all other third countries, though I think the UK had some kind of irrational idea that they were going to be special. After the vote I can't remember who it was, maybe Barnier, but someone commented that while they (UK) were in, they spent their whole time opting out, and now that they're out, they're spending their whole time trying to opt in.

But I digress. Inevitable, as I said. if you read back to sensible forums at the time of the vote (eg Guardian), those with a bit more understanding came to the conclusion that there would have to be customs a/ on the land border between NI and ROI or b/ within the UK between NI and GB. No other possibilities. Maybe tech could be used, maybe trusted suppliers, maybe something inventive, maybe bits of all of that - but at its heart there would have to be a customs check somewhere. And lets not lose sight that this was caused by the UK leaving, not by the EU. The EU remains the same body with the same rules.

However the EU and the UK government decided on a solution, whereby the only land border between the two became a bit more fluid and the border became a virtual one in the Irish sea. This was hailed as a great success by the UK government at the time. Now apparently it isn't a great success, even though the vast majority of people involved think it is. So much so that Scotland would bite yer hand off to get the same deal for themselves. You'd almost think the UK government and the DUP were using it as a political football. Unthinkable, eh.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2021 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149945#Comment_118149945

Will you quit suggesting practical ideas, you will be only putting pressure on the British to back up their bulls...sorry practical ideas.

The Irish protocol.

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