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Berlin Q or Bust: Road to sub 2:45

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    All the best J. You have given yourself a great chance to achieve your goal. Enjoy!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    Best of luck, you deserve a good run on Sunday!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Park in the Radisson hotel and stroll over?


    ive been through the airport and it can be hit and miss at security. I’ve breezed through and also taken up to 45 mins. Spend the tenner on fast track if you want peace of mind.


    all the best Krusty2


    TbL



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭jebuz


    All the best this weekend, go and revel in the experience of a big city marathon. Fully expect and acknowledge the hardship in the latter stages but trust your strength and fitness will shine through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing



    DONT FORGET TO CHARGE YOUR WATCH!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    All the best J. You've trained like a bloody demon this year, now make sure and race like one!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thanks again for the above 😁 just to point to anyone keeping an eye on things, that proceedings get on the way at the positively relaxed time of 10:30am Sunday ⌚👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭Wubble Wubble


    Very best of luck J. Training is deserving of a good result. Let it rip!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    All the best J, a controlled tear up incoming!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭ClashCityRocker


    Best of luck on Sunday J, your training has been nothing short of fantastic and everything is pointing to a brilliant time. Above all enjoy the day!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Best of luck tomorrow J. Some unbelievable training put in by you for what seems like an age, delighted you finally get to toe the marathon line. Hope everything goes to plan. As AMK said, don't forget to charge the watch but also put an extra loop on the shoe laces



  • Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭MrMacPhisto


    Best of luck tomorrow. I think you will have a brilliant experience tomorrow. If you can keep it sensible for the first 20 miles, you'll fly it home and obliterate the target.

    No matter the result, enjoy the day. That is the most important thing. All the best :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭browne_rob5


    Best of luck tomorrow J. You are in unbelievable shape. So much great work put in and you kept great focus in all the uncertainty. Hope it all goes to plan for you!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Not much left to be said about your training by now, but it also doesn’t really matter. Of the 3,000 things that can go wrong in a marathon I hope only 20 of them happen to you and you deal with them well. Looking forward to following the tracker tomorrow, no pressure!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Sorry to disappoint, but a DNF after 15/16 miles. Not sure how far exactly. Zero energy, don't know what happened. Soul destroying stuff. Thanks for all the support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭DeepBlue


    Sorry to hear. The marathon can be a cruel mistress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    You must be reeling. I know I am. Hard to believe after all the training. Really gutted for you.

    Was debating whether to post this or not as it may be too soon or it may be the best thing ever to try again asap. I'm not sure but just wanted to let you know as they were hoping to close entries so just in case. Very local.

    https://www.njuko.net/thorougbred-2021-marathon/select_competition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Really bummed to read this news. Not expected and certainly not deserved. No doubt you'll be back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    Really sorry to hear this. I don't know what to say just that I'm gutted for you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,558 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sorry to see this, J. Maybe the cold wasn't taper madness after all? Got to be something behind it, but that's for another day. Sympathies!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    I'm just putting in out there - if you want a hand doing up a melancholic update about a Marathon that didn't go well, ...............I know a guy.


    Just sayin'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    I’ve a collection of “tales of woe” templates to choose from…


    unlucky J you’ve been here before and’ll bounce back


    TbL



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Went about writing a report but you know what, I don't really fancy raking those coals as of yet. Thanks for all the messages on here and elsewhere.

    Might give the log a rest for a while until the head clears. Body is fine, no lasting injuries or anything like that. I definitley won't be running it back anywhere else in the next few weeks. I know I've done it before, but I'm just not in that place this time round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Lovely to meet you in the airport. All the best with what you decide to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Jesus, that reads a bit dramatic doesn't it!? I put it down to the tired, funky spot I found myself in yesterday. Anyway, will stick up report later and move on. Might even run later too, although might just leave it another day. Anyway, I'm not quite in the glass cage if emotion that the previous post suggested I was 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Haha it did read that way but honestly who'd blame you if you were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Good to hear. As SB said you'd be right to have felt like that. You've been super consistent and flying along and completely didn't deserve that at the weekend. You've put yourself in great shape though and haven't got a full marathon race in your legs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭MrMacPhisto


    Phew 😅

    I was going to light a candle!😁

    Honestly, this race will stand to you more than any PB in the many races to come. The glorious runs are soon forgotten while the bad days alway stick in the mind and provide a useful reminder of how hard racing can be. You will learn huge amounts when it's less raw and you have time to digest it all. I am looking forward to your report.

    Enjoy the recovery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Manchester Marathon: DNF


    D...N...F the three worst letters that one can put together. In starting this report I actually don’t know what I’m going to recall from the race as I haven’t really drilled down into it too much, but I'll open the Strava file and have a goo I suppose...apologies for what is going to follow. It's probably going to be a tough enough read.


    Pre Race:


    Early flight for this one had me leaving the house at 4:30 am. Whatever transpires the next time I go overseas for a marathon, I’m not flying early on Saturday. I’ll either stay Friday night or pay the premium for the later flight on Saturday. 


    Luckily enough, any worries that we’d be hanging around during the day until a 3pm check in were unfounded, as the hotel let us into the room when we got there at 9am. Delighted with this, we dumped the bags and got a tram into the City Centre for a painless number collection in the cavernous convention center. Back to the hotel, via a Tesco visit for supplies, and it was time to put the feet up.


    I was pretty tired after the early start, so I managed to get a couple of hours of sleep from around 2pm to 4pm and was glad of them. Myself and my two clubmates had booked an Italian in Salford for 5pm so we got an Uber out and back to that. Was pretty stuffed after it, too stuffed probably. I ate a few different breads and then had calzone as my main. Possibly left it a bit late to eat too, but how and ever.


    Back in the hotel, I was out for the count before half time in the England game. Had a decent sleep, couple of trips to the toilet notwithstanding. But I was awake by 5am and there was no getting back to sleep. Listened to Fury Wilder on the radio and just tried to zone out. Went down for breakfast at 7:30. Porridge and some toast and jam. Was still pretty full from the night before so I didn’t overdo it.


    Without falling into the trap of basing my analysis of the day off the end result of the day, I have to say that I was not exactly bouncing off the walls. I was really apprehensive all morning and wasn’t buzzing at all. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be apprehensive enough the morning of a marathon, but this feeling would usually be jousting with some pre race adrenaline, which was conspicuous by its absence here.


    Changed into race gear, packed bag and headed the mile or so to the athletes village at the Old Trafford cricket ground. I did get a buzz when walking past the Theater of Dreams (tm) and this got the juices flowing a bit. However, the start was still 90 mins away at this stage, so it was short lived!


    At this juncture I have to say what a really well organised marathon it was. Bag Drop was painless and very well organised. Everything worked really, and apart from a little delay at the start line, I would have no hesitation in recommending it to anyone looking to run a marathon in the UK.


    The Race

    The entire wave was walked down to the start pen. Got a short little run to check my laces were done properly (they were ;) ) and then into the pen for about 10:10am to get a decent spot. Sun was beating down at this point and I was slightly worried about this, but I just brushed it off. Clock ticks to 10:30, everyone hushes while some dude with a very weak megaphone tells us that…there’s a delay of some ilk and the course isn’t clear (or something, not 100% sure as the groans around me drowned out what came next). We’re on a dual carriageway type road here, so I hopped the barrier and sat down on the verge in the middle. A couple of minutes later though and we had gotten the nod that things could get going. Wheelchair and Elites set off and then it was time to get going.


    As a few of you found out, the tracker was non-existent on Sunday so I’ll give you the watch splits which were fairly accurate apart from a section around Deansgate in the city which is home to most of Manchester’s high rise skyscrapers.


    Miles 1-3 (6:11, 6:17,6:15)


    The start was quick, and I found myself trying to rein things in, whilst also navigating my way past a lot of runners who really should have considered their positions in the starting pen. Managed to not come a cropper and headed into the city without too much drama. Garmin told me my condition was ‘+7’ after 3 miles. ‘That’s great, pity I don’t really feel it!’ I mused to myself. 


    Miles 4-6 (6:15, 6:17, 6:07)


    First water station was just after 5k in. Popped half an electrolyte tablet in a bottle and let it dissolve. Go to drink it and nearly puke the contents back up. I’d never taken this particular flavour during a hard run before, and it did not sit well at all in the stomach. Oh well, only a small issue, I wasn’t too perturbed by it. Bit of a drag in the city around 5 miles in and the 6th mile was in amongst the skyscrapers, so that accounts for the slower and faster mile splits. Crowds were great and noisy here and it did feel like a proper city marathon in this section. 


    Both Murph and Jebuz mentioned about enjoying the experience of running a big event again, and at this early stage with the crowds and buzz around I should really have been in great form. I wasn’t though. I wasn’t struggling or anything, the pace felt fine as it should at that point of the race, but I wasn’t enjoying or appreciating the experience at all. This doesn’t mean a whole lot in the greater scheme of things, but it’s worth observing.


    Miles 7-9 (6:15, 6:16, 6:15)


    Heading back out of the city, long straight stretches here, all of which were fairly anonymous until we get to Old Trafford and run past the stadium and surrounds. My thinking here is that I’m not feeling great but the pace is consistent. I wasn’t expecting to feel great the whole time so I was prepared for it. I just found myself hoping that I’d go through a good patch soon and we hadn’t even made 10 miles yet. The experience just felt long. Maybe that’s the wrong description, but it just felt like I’d been out the road a long time. Is this sustainable I kept asking myself? 


    Miles 10-12 (6:19, 6:18, 6:23)


    Have mentioned nothing so far about other runners. I was in or around a couple of groups throughout. Some runners came and went and came back again. Fell in with the odd runner but there was no real pace group that I was part of. Things started to get a little worrying around the 10 mile mark. Legs started to feel heavy all of a sudden. ‘WHAT THE ACTUAL F^%*!!??’ Ten miles in and this is happening. Try not to panic as some of the aforementioned runners who were in and around me start to move away slowly but surely. Through 10 Miles at 62:27 on watch, probably a few seconds more in reality, but pretty much bang on target. However the thoughts of delivering 16+ more miles of this are suddenly very worrisome. Okay Johnny, dig in here and ride out these couple of miles and we’ll reevaluate at halfway if necessary. Peaks and troughs and all of that, I knew I’d have to grind out a couple of tough patches and this was just one of them. 11 and 12 splits confirm that I’m slowing. I’m still running at a decent clip here, but this sense of foreboding has set in. My legs are not responding the way I want them too. They feel like I’m at mile 22 rather than 12. Man oh man…


    Miles 13-15 (6:27, 6:40, 6:47)


    Go through halfway on the course at 1:22:40. But it means nothing to me. I can feel this thing is only going in one direction. Okay, can we stem the bleeding to 6:30’s for a couple of miles? Maybe get a second wind or something...At this point I can’t remember much about the course. I’m slowing. Badly. A little railway bridge during mile 14 almost slows me to a walk. These miles are filled with a load of negative thoughts. You could guess what they were... The amount of training I’ve put in, only to perform like this. The sacrifices that people around me make to facilitate my running. Disappointing so many people who were following me and waiting to hear the result. The pressure and expectations that I’d put on myself. Running has become a massive part of my identity in recent years and this is what I go and produce. 


    Mile 16-17 (7:04, then almost 8min mile pace for the bit)


    At least hold on for sub 3 pace and not make a complete disgrace of yourself Johnny...Nope, not happening either. And then, just like someone turned off a switch, I stumble from my then 5:30/km pace onto the kerb and sit down. Head in hands. Devastated. 


    26.92km: 1:47:47 @4:00/km


    A spectator comes over after a while and asks if I need anything. She was sufficiently worried by my semi coherent response to go and get a steward. Said steward ended up being a very kind lady, who paid for a tram ticket to get me back to Old Trafford (by a stroke of ‘luck’ I’d managed to come to a halt across the road from a Metrolink station). That 25 minute tram journey was the lowest experience I’ve had in my time running. It’s hard to think about it, even now.


    Back to the athletes village to get the bag. Finishers are streaming in with their hard earned medals and t-shirts. All the usual post marathon buzz. It’s a difficult place to present in. Sit a wall, make a couple of emotional phone calls and wait for two clubmates to come in. They both finish well below expectations, but they’ve finished. Shuffle back to hotel and get there about 3pm. Field a couple of phone calls off some running friends back home and then sit at hotel bar and have a rake of pints. 


    In slightly better form the day after. Pick up a few bits in the United megastore, go to see James Bond and then have a nice few pints and Currywurst in a German bar in the city centre. Bumped into the inspirational Elaine in the airport before getting home.


    So………...yeah. There you go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Thanks for putting that up J....and here comes the psychoanalysis....lol

    All joking aside, all I'll say is its not a physical thing. It's purely mental. I think you put a lot of pressure on yourself to deliver a performance your training deserves. I think the attention from the running community (boards, strava etc) compounds that. If I was in your shoes I'd spend a marathon block completely off the radar just to get that monkey off your back. You've also had a very hectic few months. Wouldn't underestimate that either.

    Just my two cents. Hard luck lad. The training hasn't gone to waste that's for sure. But you know that already. You're still a beast of a runner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    I'm not inspirational at all, I was in a different mindset that's all.

    As raw as that was to write hopefully it helps you to process the events & emotions of the day & as all ready said by others, the glory is great but what we learn from the non glory days in life makes us stronger people. It's always easier to be kind to others so just try be kind to yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    You’ll be back, it happens to the best of us.

    Having a few days to reflect is there anything in your training that in hindsight that you would change?

    TbL



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Lambay island



    Well done on some beastly, consistent training. You certainly didn't deserve that finish to it all. You are going to knock the crap out of your next race with your current fitness levels.

    "And then, just like someone turned off a switch, I stumble from my then 5:30/km pace onto the kerb "

    I can relate to that line so much - its such a surreal feeling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    I'm sure it doesn't make you feel any better but many an athlete struggled that day for whatever reason. I don't think anyone in our running group performed as they should have. Again, it's probably no consolation to you. Could've been a multiple of factors that you've probably over-analysed yourself ever since. As you said in the race, peaks and troughs - it's part and parcel of being a runner. No doubt you'll be back to your peak soon enough

    Your report was great to read, too often we get to hear about the great races and very rarely get to hear about the not so great. Thanks for sharing. It's makes me question whether I will ever be able to run my expected time in a marathon when I see things like this happen to a fantastic runner whose training was unbelievable and everything done by the book.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Right...where to start? This could be rambling, but I do keep an online running log so it is the ideal place to trash things out! 


    Well, there hasn't been a whole lot of running since MCR. Ran once the following week, went up to Belfast for a couple of nights, ate and drank a lot.


    Back running the second week, felt pretty good all in all. Bit of a sore throat started to rear its head on the Wednesday, ended up cutting a run short and heading home. Things went progressively downhill from there, out of work Thu & Fri. Negative for covid but my old friend Pharyngitis had returned, the net result being thta I was awake for 48hours straight due to the pain when I swallowed. Zero. Craic. There. 


    Recovered by Sunday, went for a few (too many) pints of Guinness after Sarsfields match and since Tuesday have been back running easy.


    There's a lot of reflection to be done after Manchester, and I'm sure different things will pop up here and there that I haven't thought about. I've gotten a lot of advice and takes on what happened from people who's opinions I really respect....and while there's no consensus on what went wrong, there's definitely a some things/mistakes/approaches that I need to learn from. I'll go through a few bits here as they come to me (I did add the disclaimer at the start of this post 😉) 


    Strava Pressure

    A couple of people have mentioned this to me, including Swashbuckler on here. I took a little Strava/Boards sabbatical there after the marathon, but to be honest I missed them. Any external pressure that may have arisen from Strava or the log, was minute in comparison to the pressure I put myself under (more on this later). The community that I'm part of on here, and Strava to a lesser extent, is a big part of my running and without doubt enhances the experience for me. I enjoy being on the journey with others and sharing my ups and downs. One absolute disaster of a race doesn't change that.


    Training

    Jeepers, where to start? First things first, I 100% trust my training. I know what I'm doing works for me and have no doubts about where it's coming from. That's not to say it won't change for the next marathon block, whenever that may be, but my training has evolved along with my running over the years, and I'm sure this time will be no different.


    In retrospect though, there are a couple of things I'd do differently. I was doing marathon type stuff for a long while. This was completely my decision. When Manchester Apr 2020 was pulled and the first lockdown happened, I just stayed in touch and tried to keep some variety in my running. I then naively started a block that July for Amsterdam the following October. Did most of it, pulled plug about Sept, ran a XC race (ugggh), then on a relative whim, ran a 2:56 virtual DCM. After that I did a handful of shorter sessions, and managed ran a 16:50 5k TT which, rather than whetting my appetite for the distance, caused me to park any 5k training as I'd broken 17 mins and wasn't really bothered about going any faster.


    The lockdown after Christmas led me to decide to keep doing marathon type stuff. The training suited my head space and home/work situation. Long hard efforts were just appealing to me at that point. Steady LR's, long intervals, MLR's, getting plenty of miles in. I've always navigated towards the longer distances and during those difficult weeks and months, those runs really helped. 


    My mate who coaches me, is precisely that: a mate first, not a coach first. He understood where my headspace was and prescribed the type of stuff I asked for, even though he suggested changing emphasis. Looking back, these few months really got me into great shape if I'm honest. However, maybe I would have been better off focusing on some shorter stuff for a block or two instead. 


    Where I'm going with this, I think, is the (unintended) mental fatigue that came with this. I was soley focused on the marathon for the guts of two years. When I trained, that was the only thing I'd visualise. I think that may have just caught up with me by the end. I'd so much invested and riding on the race, that I maybe I just didn't/couldn't enjoy it. It wasn't my first rodeo, I know how marathon pace feels and even in those first few miles in Manchester I was flat, worried, over analysing things...


    The Race

    All the above directly or indirectly fed in to the result. The report is a few posts back for all to see. Treviso's comments were much appreciated, as were all the commiserations I recieved on here and offline. In hindsight would I change the raceday approach? Whatever happened that morning, be it a bug, mental fatigue, heat, whatever....would have happened even if I went out conservatively at 2:48 pace or something. That's what I think anyway. The pace didn't kill. My body of training, race results, sessions, LR sessions all suggested that sub 2:45 was a realistic target, and if I'm honest, I expected to be able to wind things up second half and go under it comfortably. 

    For whatever reason, I just didn't have it that day. I've ran marathons where I've blown up, where I've bled time at the end, where I've cruised around for 23 miles, where I've slipped on plastic cups, where I've negative splitted etc. It wasn't my first rodeo and I've never felt as flat as I did in Manchester. I was waiting to feel good, for it to pass, and it just didn't happen. 

    A couple of people have called me out on the DNF, suggesting that I should have crawled home if neccessary, that I've let in a blight into my mindset by walking off the course. I get that, and it's fair game. The only thing I'd say is that I've done the death shuffle in the past. I've no problems finishing marathons if things have gone belly up. On this occasion the system said no and I couldn't jog another step. Mental? Physical? Who knows, but I was not able to complete that race. 

    If I ever go abroad for a race again I'm going the Friday afternoon I think. Saturday was a long tiring day, and even though I got a few hours kip in the afternoon, it just added to my lethargy. It was the first time in about 8 years that I'd an afternoon nap too 😂


    Next Steps

    Well I'm changing emphasis for a while. If I'm feeling up to it, I will start a 5k/10k stretch of training next week, hopefully culminating in Raheny at the end of January, with a few other races thrown in there. 

    I'm going to run the Limerick Marathon in May. I know there's faster options with deeper fields in April, but I need to simplify things. The appeal of not having to travel overseas and sleeping in my own bed the night before is to the forefront of my thinking. Plus, I've ran the marathon before and have great memories from it. (also add in the fact it will be Swashbuckler and MYBAD's marathon debuts...)


    Fair play to anyone who's stayed with this strain of consciousness. All thoughts or observations welcome as always 😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    I guess the pressures on me now! Ah worst case I'll pace you for 20 miles ......Great write up by the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,558 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Yes, very interesting reflections there J. On the surface, your race report at the time suggested overtraining to me, mostly based on the 'flat' feeling, which I've felt myself more than once. But your diagnosis of overfocus on the marathon is probably more plausible, it does get old alright. Definitely with you on not travelling the day before, especially because that's something you can control. I'm absolutely sure this will all play into better racing in the future. As an educator, you know that we are all learning all the time, and if we aren't we're f*cked!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Great read J. The mind is such a weird & wonderful place at the best of times, add pressure & who knows where it goes. We all know when it comes to putting pressure on ourselves we are the worst. We are so hard on ourselves in so many aspects of our lives & sometimes it's just gets too much. It's good that you have been able to look at it all & pick out where you think it went wrong but also to learn from it. Over the past few months I have learnt that I need to be a bit more gentle with myself, I know for a fact I would show way more compassion & support to another person so why not for myself? If you find out how to do it successfully let me know please 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭browne_rob5


    Hi J - Great read and thanks for sharing. From outside looking in I cant see anything wrong with your training. You were in great shape and had an off day unfortunately for whatever reason. I think its a good approach to get a few races in now before Limerick and get used to racing again as we are all a bit rusty.

    I'm planning to run Limerick in May too! Similar to yourself its the appeal of not having to travel overseas and will have some support on the day too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    That's a great synopsis and a great read for us all to re-read prior to starting a training block - maybe even a contender for post of the year.

    I really agree with your points on Strava & Boards regarding the 'pressure' or lack thereof - while I'm enjoying the break from both - but I miss the camaraderie that it brings. BTW - I also think you made the right decision to DNF - carrying on would have no benefit whatsoever other than to tire you out even more.

    I sent you my synopsis privately, so I'm not going to go over it again - I think your on the right wavelength - I'll just say that I dont think you done anything 'wrong' - it was just a victim of circumstance that it rolled on a bit longer.

    I'm interested in any thoughts that your buddy who sets your training has on what happened??



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thanks AMK. Yeah he's fairly pragmatic about these things. Reckons I was in the shape to do it and whether it was a cold or the long build up and pressure, it's done now and all we can do is just bang on. If a pattern develops then we can look at things, but for the moment just file it away as a once off and cash in on the fitness the next time. He had some big highs and massive lows so he's a good sounding board for these things. 'Marathons are f*%king mad!' was his final word on the matter 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    Howdie J, I've been meaning to drop by for a while now and post this. I was sorry to see things didn't work out in Manchester, I'm not on Strava much these days but when I do take a look, its usually at people like yourself to see how you're going - and you were bombing along for sure.

    I hope the recovery is going well and you're getting the fire back in the belly for another assault at something or other.

    I've nothing to add to the above other than, I do think we are in danger of sucking the fun out of the sport at times with the level of obsession we get to (lets be honest, for a lot of us, thats what it is). The last couple of years have been strange, lots of solo training, lots of fitness building, and maybe lots of anticipation\pressure building with that.

    The absence of the natural release valve that races usually provides us with is something that can't be dismissed in my view. The art and skill of racing is also just that, a skill - something we learn and get good at, some of us need it more than others. I know I certainly thrive on racing, both for the physical exertion and for the mental training\dealing with pressure that comes with it. Without regular races, I tend to build my own pressures and expectations, all internalised and sometimes catastrophised !

    Doing more of something generally makes us better at it, I do wonder if you'd had a good year of racing under your belt, without over doing it of course, would you have come out the far end better off.

    I did take the time out to look at your training and it was crystal clear that you were in super shape, primed for a crack at the marathon distance. I did think that one or two of your sessions looked to have crossed that line in terms of risk v reward....(there was a 10 mile + 10 mile session in particular that stands out) but what you experienced on the day would be very hard to put down to any one thing, my guess is that it was a combination of things and we all know that with the marathon, if something is off...you're going to be found out, usually the hard way.

    I don't doubt you'll be back and all the better for it but I do think its important that you take something from this, some sort of lesson or some sort of growth that you remind yourself of in 3 months time when you're flying around again and all is well. You'll know better than anyone what that is and how to apply the learning in the best possible.

    Hope to see you at a race soon enough, enjoy the next adventure

    D



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thanks D. Great to hear from you again. Yeah you've definitely got a point on benefits of regular racing and not letting things build up. I mean, I haven't raced a 10k since March 2019 🤣 I'm always building for a marathon it seems. Gonna try and remedy that in the next few months as racing is definitely a skill and something that can be improved upon (I am speaking of course to a man who set his 10k PB on a tough XC course!) Currently working my way through a couple of bugs/doses. It's happened to me in the past when, post marathon block, the system is a bit run down and I've picked up a few bits. Feeling great today so will kick into a bit of a block next week hopefully.

    That 10 mile/10 mile session is one to think about alright. First things first, I went harder than I was supposed to. I was meant to come home in 61 mins, so that's on me. I just felt invincible that morning and the 59:39 split felt really comfortable. I was thinking 'this is the session that is going to crown me'. Maybe it did ultimately push me over the edge. I didn't have many sessions or LR's where I went off plan, but that was one of them. I tried to use it as a positive, but yeah you might be onto something there.

    Hopefully see you at a few races in the next while. What's in the plan for your good self?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    It must be the only sport where we can get engrossed in training and neglect the actual competitive side of things, even the tea\cake after a race and the associated chats help the process in my view. Football, GAA, Golf....all built around the actual game whereas we tend to get buried in the training....of course the last 2 years didn't help things !

    I've no doubt you'll blast out some good efforts over the winter though, fitness is not a question, mind yourself with the doses though.


    My own plans have been derailed somewhat by COVID, I had been building for San Seb at the end of the month, got myself into pretty good shape over the summer\autumn but picked up COVID a couple of weeks back. While the dose itself felt mild enough, it really becomes apparent when trying to run (low energy, breathing heavy etc) so I've no real choice but to let the system restore itself over the next couple of weeks and move onto some shorter stuff sooner than I had planned. But I'm ok with that, it is what it is, there are worse things happening out there !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    Great Post J, will you coach me for Limerick? 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Me too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Well......It's been a month since Manchester, so I may resurrect both the log and my running career! Outside of my couple of bouts of sickness, it's just been wall to wall slobbery If I'm honest. Now I'd planned a few social outings in advance of the marathon to reward myself at the end of a hard period of training, so I've had a few more occasions to let things slide than normal. But as of today, I'm getting back on the horse, cleaning up the diet, getting back training and, first of all, shift the pounds that have flew on in a short space of time!

    Running has been sparse over the last week or so, mostly down to laziness and hangovers. That's not to say I haven't been enjoying myself! but I've gotten things out of my system now, so I'm pretty much ready to go again. Any running I've done has been pretty piecemeal and lacking quality of any discernible sort. Will get a few easy runs in the rest of this week and then go from Monday.

    Runs since Manchester:

    Fri 15th: 4 Miles: 30:34 @4:45/km

    Mon 18th: 10.6k: 52:28 @4:57/km

    Tue 19th: 6k: 29:21 @4:56/km

    This is where I felt dodge during the run and subsequently was sick...

    Tue 26th: 12.3k: 56:11 @4:35/km

    An 'I'm not dead' type of run!

    Wed 27th: 7 Miles: 59:06 @5:15/km

    Thu 28th: 7 Miles: 57:12 @5:04/km

    Fri 29th: 7 Miles: 57:15 @5:05/km

    All 3 runs on the wet and windy plains. Very cathartic.

    Sat 30th: 20k: 1:22:46 @4:08/km

    Bit of a hit-out

    Wed 3rd: 10k: 48:13 @4:49/km

    Fri 5th: 7 Miles: 53:29 @4:45/km

    Pre trip up the 3 Arena for the Bellator MMA card. Enjoyable evening was had.

    Sun: 18.2k: 1:16:47 @4:13/km

    Pre county final run, threw on the tunes, jacket sleeve on over the watch, no idea where, how far or how fast I was gonna run....Enjoyed it in the end, but was feeling the effects of diet and alcohol intake to be honest. Post county final pints were enjoyable, county final not so much.

    Meant to get out last night but a few bits got in the way and by the time I was able to run, I just couldn't be arsed. Looking forward to getting out this afternoon and steadying the ship.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Wed: 13.2k: 1:00:41 @4:36/km

    Tipping along around the hilly outskirts of the Curragh. Felt decent enough, a few consistent days now and i'll be grand. Back on plan next Monday, 2 weeks later than scheduled, but I've nothing too urgent to prepare for. Entered for Raheny so that's a target, but will try and get a few shorter races in sharpen the edge. Have an entry for Jingle Bells, so will run that as a range finder, see where I am. Who else is in for Jingle Bells from on here?? Is it back to the old route? I only ran it in 2019 when the route had changed. I have some vague memories of Overpronator saying the older route was a nicer one? Or maybe it was the other way around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭Wubble Wubble


    I'm in for Jingle Bells. Not sure about going back to the old route - scotindublin has the inside track on that one. IMHO the older route was nicer - no Furry Glen trip in the 4th km!



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