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Mica Redress

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    They should have to put money towards it. It's their house. It's their responsibility.


    This nonsense out Today about a levy to cover all this. No change no way, I'm sick of paying for other peoples failures. Whether it's pmpa the bank bailout or Quinn insurance. I'm not a bottomless pit of cash .

    So yes I do think they should have some input on the fix. I'd expect that of myself the end .



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Seems government is considering increasing the amount to 400k as well as introducing some kind of levy to cover the costs.

    400k is far too much, I know there is demolition costs but the land is already there, services are in place, there is potential for kitchen/windows/bathroom to be reused. I have sympathy for those involved but there needs to be reasonable limits put in place if everyone else is picking up the bill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    The people whose homes are crumbling are also paying for pmpa the bank bailout and Quinn insurance. They are not a bottomless pits either .But hey the I'm alright Jack attitude was expected by some.

    Anyhow I was replying to a poster who claimed a house was being built for free who should get a few facts before spouting off on one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The house is being built for free minus a few grand for survey costs. Let's be clear ...



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If (and I don't accept it by default) the government has to take any responsibility it should be to ensure people are adequately housed. And enforced properly. Kids have moved out? **** if the state should be rebuilding a 4 bedroom house for a couple.

    Realistically the already ridiculously high numbers are going to get higher. We can barely get the workers to build 20k houses nationwide in a year. Mostly in developments where it's a fair bit quicker. If they do 100% redress we're gonna end up looking at €10 billion pretty easily.

    Oh well, at least the people responsible will suffer the consequences.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Let's be clear, too many people making statements just to hear themselves and not knowing the facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The campaign group who made 100% redress a red-line have made a huge mistake.

    It looks unreasonable and aggressive and they haven't brought the Country with them at all. If the Government offer any other solution, like new matched financing, or alternative housing not on the residents' original site, the lobby groups have painted themselves into a corner of not being able to accept them.

    There's still time for them to reassess that and I think they should, because 100% redress in all cases simply will not happen in a million years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I'm intrigued of someone who seems to indicate they have all the facts.


    Was it 5 grand ? For 200k rebuild or what specifically are we talking costs wise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Alternative housing not on the residents original site.

    I will leave it here.

    Only excuse I can think of is you havn't a clue about rural Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I suspect that €400k limit will be a political one, and that while in theory demo and rebuild will be an option, it will be a difficult threshold to achieve. It also looks like government are going to take this back to central control via the housing agency to keep cost under control.

    Otherwise this is a 10bn+ scheme. One would hope government wouldn't be so reckless.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I live in rural Ireland malinheader. My front garden looks at a heard of cows and a bull. The other side of my garden looks at fields of grass which is feed for said cattle.

    I don't understand rural Ireland is it .... Try harder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    You seem to have trouble working out what post I am replying to listermint.

    Perhaps try harder to work out who I am replying to. But perhaps your just confused.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I am confused why you can't answer questions directed at you...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    How can I answer a question that is made up of your assumptions or opinions. Anyhow don't know why you need me to answer questions you seem to know everything you need to know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    That's the beauty about these levies, over a very long time the costs are gradually recovered while those impacted are helped up front.


    No one gives a toss about insurance levies.


    If you asked random motorists what levies they paid, most of them couldn't tell you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    There is no beauty to these levies. All they'll do is make development more expensive. Such a levy would I would forecast to add somewhere between 3 and 5k to the average home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭stayback


    I have complete sympathy for the people involved in this and it must be horrible for the people involved ..

    but I have a serious issue with the tax payer footing the bill here. Where are the engineers who signed off the houses the people who supplied the materials..



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Everyone cares about Levy's. This is utter waffle..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Then you can link to the numerous, multiple-page threads on Boards full of people vexed by a yearly insurance levy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    A nation governed by gombeens, nothing ever changes. They make an arse of it and Joe Taxpayer picks up the tab and every one actually responsible (civil servants and politicians get a promotion and ride off scott free.....)

    Bank bailouts, Mica, Pyrite, Voting Machines, The Children's Hospital, Dail Printers, PMPA, Insurance Bailouts, Irish Water, Eircom, Priory Hall and a zillion other botched celtic tiger developments, endless tribunals, the housing crisis, a zillion HSE failures, the Tram that didn't meet in the middle so lets build another line to fix the cockup........I could go on and on and on....

    Father Ted & Dougal Maguire is the most accurate way to describe our political classes and the senior civil servants in Ireland just less funny......they just seem incapable of doing basic things that governments need to do like regulation without making an arse of it.

    Just get out your cheque book folks, pay the Mica bill and stop moaning, part of living in Ireland. 400k a house will equal several billion but hey we can afford it just look at the children's hospital fiasco. Could end up costing 2.4 billion putting it up there as one of the most expensive buildings ever....wtc rebuild cost 3.8 billion just to give you some idea of how rich we must be to be able to spend 2.4 billion on a medium sized hospital....so what is another few billion on Mica.......sure we are loaded.....

    Just whack a couple of percent on USC and will all be grand.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Giving it some kind of context, there's 3,172 properties for sale on daft.ie in Dublin at the moment.

    €400,000 would be enough to buy 1,690 of those properties (slightly more than half of them).

    685 of those properties have at least three beds.

    Ludicrous amount to be paying to house people in Donegal. Ludicrous for Government to incentivise a concentration of building capacity in one county, in the middle of a national housing crisis.

    Yet, it's happening. There's already a scheme paying out up to a limit of €275,000. That's what's already been given.

    Wouldn't we all like a grant to €275,000 to get a house?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    See let me try and explain. Its not to get a house. The house is already there. The house is crumbling down around the homeowners. So its not a grant to get a house. The houses were bought and still being paid for by the homeowners. Hopefully this will help you understand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    That’s not an explanation. It’s an expression of a gap in comprehension.

    It simply doesn’t make sense to spend €400k on a house that, on completion, will be worth €200k.

    Its the classic case of people not giving a toss if someone else is paying. Folk expected to fund this nonsense will have appreciated the point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Or a classic case of I'm alright Jack my house is not crumbling around me and totally worthless and I'm not suffering mentally after living in a nightmare for possibly ten years or more. What should I care. Folk living this nightmare will certainly not appreciate your points.



  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Yes pretty happy nails it. Harsh reality folks is the governments you have elected over recent decades are so blitheringly incompetent they have failed repeatedly to regulate properly house building, inspections and resource properly any oversight of a critical component of a modern country that being it's construction industry. It is incredibly easy to regulate and oversee but it wasn't taken for political expediency and we now pay the costs. Fianna Fail are currently sharing power in Ireland a few years after the 2008 crash they caused and the Fianna Fail supported building boom of zillions of substandard houses and apartments so developers could fill their boots.....do we ever learn.

    Unfortunately the Irish Taxpayer just has to pay up but please don't direct your anger at a family in Donegal who got shafted or make out they are onto a good thing. It wasn't their fault and all but the grace of God kept it from being your house crumbling....

    Whatever amount they need to get them back to where they were is what should be paid.

    And next year it will be something else.....pony up taxpayers while we fill in our unvouched expenses claims.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Note sure people want to think it through....just rant on about 400k being a ridiculous amount.......

    In fact in many cases I think factoring in mortgage/cash debt already paid, demolition costs, temp accommodation costs and rebuild costs you will doing well to keep it under 400k.

    Rant v reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Well said. Whatever amount it takes to turn these houses into homes for families again, no amount of money could make up for the ten and more years these families have had their mental health severely tested watching their homes crumble around them.

    Very easy to rant but the reality of your home having to be demolished must be catastrophic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Absolute nonsense. Whatever amount it takes.

    And il be making sure my TD knows. I'm sick of this open check book crap that's been pushed on the taxpayer. Absolutely no idea where there's valuations are coming from and you've already had to gall to say that folks impacted shouldn't have to pay anything to prove their house is impacted.

    Bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    I'm sure you will, definitely sure about that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Why don't you write to your TD and ask them to explain why the government failed to regulate the construction industry........

    You seem to have absolutely no understanding of what is going on here. People's houses are literally crumbling around them due to governmental incompetence and you are getting all hot under the collar about paying up. You will be paying and paying loads and so will every other Taxpayer in Ireland for years to come. It will be billions of euros and right up there with the many cluster fcuk ups in recent years be it the children's hospital etc etc.

    Frustrated well, join the club but please stop trying to scapegoat some ordinary families in an awful situation. Even if financially a family recovers much or all of their outlay they will have still suffered years of stress and worry due to the blitheringly incompetent politicians and civil servants who have failed for decades to regulate properly.



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