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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #11222
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152324#Comment_118152324

    Stockdale, Earls, Lowe, Conway, Balcoune, Larmour, Zebo to throw out a few names off the top of my head. Plus plenty more around the provinces. To me we have some excellent talent, maybe one or two out of form but a return to form and they are some of the top wingers in the World.



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    #11223
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152324#Comment_118152324

    I'd strongly disagree tbh; I'd say back-three, and wing in particular, is a very strong area where we have quite a few options, who all bring their own different set of pro's and cons. Earls, Conway, Lowe, Stockdale, Larmour, Zebo, Baloucoune are all guys who, on form, could easily be considered for a starting jersey. (EDIT: see above).

    In any case I think it's just a small bit of confusion, and the OP meant P45 for Stockdale at 15.



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    #11224
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    This is close to a full strenght side. Except Henshaw and maybe Stckdale! Hopefully, Sexton can stay on the pitch! They will target him. I'm not to worried about our backs, unless the pack can't hold up. Lowe maybe the weak link, but if the pack doesn't perform.... the backline will all be under foot.

    I would have had Larmour on the bench. Herring is probably a good call. Sheehan will play against Argentina. He might even start.

    Cian Healy still getting into the 23! I would have picked Kilcoyne for this one. He's better in the loose and is faster around the pitch. If we win this, I think we're turning the corner. Squad development has been great and Farrell has shown He's willing to bring in fellas.



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    #11225
    Luckycharm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152353#Comment_118152353

    I wouldn't say any of them are currently considered some of the top wingers in the world, Stockdale in 2018 yes but none currently. None were close to selection for the Lions.



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    #11226
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152406#Comment_118152406

    Even if we don't win, but perform well and build on what we did v England and Japan, I'll think we're turning a corner.

    Honestly the result is secondary for me. I just want to see a performance, further progress and continued development of a style of rugby that can win us a world cup.

    Beating NZ in an Autumn International is great but it isn't a true reflection of where the two teams are at. So lets learn from our mistakes and not hype ourselves up as world cup favourites if we win (jesus I sound like that knobhead MacKenna).

    At the end of the day, we should view NZ as our peers. A tier 1 nation beating another tier 1 nation at home shouldn't be seen as an amazing upset.



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    #11227
    Luckycharm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152406#Comment_118152406

    Kilcoyne is just over a year younger than Healy, Healy is a better scrummager, not sure much between them in the Loose, Kilcoyne runs fast straight into nearest defender even when a 4 on 1. Healy did score off bench last week, he is still very good.



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    #11228
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152440#Comment_118152440

    Not getting picked for the Lions doesn't mean you are not a top quality player. The Lions had a plan before a ball was kicked and as we seen that was nothing about having an attacking style of rugby

    This review ogf Biggar says it all

    10 Dan Biggar

    The fact that he passed the ball on just three occasions was initially a reflection of the game plan but he should have over-ridden the directions when things changed dramatically after the interval. He will be disappointed with the penalty miss and was replaced on 58 minutes. Rating: 6



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    #11229
    ersatz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149318#Comment_118149318

    I guess the IRFU/Joe were influential with his move to Munster to play ten once it became clear that Leinster saw him at 15, , that's the influence I was talking about. But before the move was announced there was talk about Joe's influence on selection of Carbery at ten even though the assumption was that Leinster weren't interested long term in him playing there. He was selected at ten for this reason, occasionally. We can nit pick, but in principle the Irish coach has some power over provincial selection afaik. Maybe you're disagreeing and saying he doesn't?



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    #11230
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152314#Comment_118152314

    I'm probably reaching. But it wouldn't surprise me all the same. Doubt Ireland will get the space, time and soft shoulders v NZ to be able to offload and keep it fast and loose. 20 offloads v Japan! If Ireland are able to get 7 or 8 of those away they will be doing well.



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    #11231
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152494#Comment_118152494

    Joe & the IRFU only became interested in Joey as a 10 when Jackson was suddenly unavailable. If Jackson had to stay in that night I think Carbery would currently be fighting for the starting 15 jersey. That was the knock on affect of the whole Jackson disaster.



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    #11232
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152515#Comment_118152515

    Beirne or Hendo in second row is not going to change that. I would have slotted in Beirne at 6 myself.

    Hendo is also a ball playing second row and it's not like he doesn't know how to throw a pass, what he has on Beirne is bulk, something which will be required against the NZ second rows.

    Beirne coming off the bench in a hoepfully tight match could make a huge difference in the backrow/second row



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    #11233
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151908#Comment_118151908

    You'd nearly have to go with a 6-2 split with that amount of quality!

    Beirne, Ryan/Henderson; vdF, Dorris, Conan

    Henderson/Ryan, Baird, Coomes, Doak, Maybe Ciaran Frawley could be our Frans Steyn!



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    #11234
    TheRona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭TheRona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152353#Comment_118152353

    I definitely view Ireland's back 3 as the weakest positions in the squad. Would many/any of these guys get selected for NZ/Aus/SA/England/France? I'd say probably not.



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    #11235
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152665#Comment_118152665

    I think the english back 3 is the weakest ive seen in a long time, and the australian one that played in edinburgh wouldnt put the fear of god into you.



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    #11236
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152665#Comment_118152665

    Keenan would moonwalk his way into the Australia and England team and possibly the SA team.

    Not sure about France, that Jaminet lad looks very good. As for NZ, not at 15 as Jordie Barrett is probably the best in the world right now, but he would not disgrace the jersey.



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    #11237
    ersatz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152525#Comment_118152525

    You might be right. It's difficult to say how Jackson would have developed had he stayed at Ulster, but he was not very impressive in France and though I haven't watched much of LI this season, what I've seen doesn't inspire confidence that he'd get near the Irish team. Defensively he has been up there with the worst moments from Jlo.

    Speaking of which, Lowe's performance on Saturday will really tell us whether he's turned a corner defensively. The ABs will definitely go looking for him. Same goes for Carbery, assuming he get 20 or 30 minutes, it's make or break time for both of them.



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    #11238
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    In a close match, I don't see Carberry getting many minutes. Sexton will probably see it through, if we are in with a chance. That's if he doesn't pick up an injury.

    JGP starting is great. A good performance and he's certainly in the conversation as a starter. Murray will probably see 30 minutes.

    When have Ireland ever had a stack of 8's like this? There's about 6 quality 8's right now!



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    #11239
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,820 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152324#Comment_118152324

    That's my point!! Another poster was giving him his P45!!



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    #11240
    Rugbymad2020
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152749#Comment_118152749

    Ur knowledge of the game is shocking if u think Keenan is better than leroux.



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    #11241
    CMcsporty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152891#Comment_118152891

    As a FB Yeah. Crazy selection to pick him there.

    He never looked like a player capable of adapting to that position defensively and was cruelly exposed.



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    #11242
    Locke_Lamora
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152353#Comment_118152353

    Wouldn't have any of those names in the top 15 wingers in the world at the moment, Keenan is going very well though. Earls and Zebo are getting on a bit, and conway's form has been very patchy for a while now. I'm as big a fan of Baloucoune as you're likely to find but he's unproven at international level and he's injured a lot. Lowe suffers from the same defensive problems as Stockdale and Larmour isn't far behind tbh. I like Larmour but he'd only recently returned to form a bit after being moved away from 15.

    My point was Stockdale is as good a young talent as your likely to find in Ireland (on the wing), and our squad is filled with older players and players with questionable form - so jettisoning him from the squad is very premature imo. I see Stockdale being a key player over the next couple of years when the older players are winding down and the up-and-coming players (whoever they may be) are developing.

    15 is the real problem. Keenan or bust for me at the moment.



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    #11243
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153167#Comment_118153167

    It will be interesting to see how McIlroy and Osborne develop over the next year or two. Not sure who else is out there in terms of up and coming FBs, but after Keenan I'd probably put Zebo there right now.



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    #11244
    Locke_Lamora
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153209#Comment_118153209

    Forgot that Osbourne is training with them as well, I'm really curious to see if they prefer him at fullback or centre.



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    #11245
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153254#Comment_118153254

    the dev players were only in camp for the 1st weeks training



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    #11246
    CMcsporty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153279#Comment_118153279

    That is odd. Why bother if they aren’t going back to play for the provinces.



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    #11247
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152749#Comment_118152749

    The gas thing about this comment is that Freddie Steward (who is starting at 15 for England this weekend), if you asked me to describe him, I would describe him as a better Hugo Keenan. The guy is a baller under the high ball and has all the attacking tools - he's always been the standout player whenever I've seen Leicester playing .

    Kurtley Beale is no slacker either.

    Not saying Keenan wouldn't get into their teams, but "moonwalk" is a bit extreme

    Sig.png



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    #11248
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153295#Comment_118153295

    They were extra bodies while Henshaw and Henderson couldn't train fully.



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    #11249
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153209#Comment_118153209

    Shane Daly got his call up to the Ireland squad last year off the back of some solid performances at 15, but he’s since 1) fallen out of form and 2) been playing on the wing.

    Not up-and-coming, but Mike Haley is someone who I think is very underrated, but the reality is he wouldn’t be called in to start from outside the squad if Keenan got injured, say. I think Keenan is the only one in the squad at the moment regularly playing 15?



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    #11250
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152794#Comment_118152794

    Jackson arrived back from the SA tour and a lot of people wanted him to start instead of Sexton in the AI's before everything came out. Everything changed after that of course but Jackson was the heir and everything he had shown up to his last cap with Ireland would suggest he had what it took....



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    #11251
    ersatz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153462#Comment_118153462

    Yeah, he was definitely the standout then and all thing being equal he might have kicked on but blowing up his career didn't help his game and he hasn't looked like that player since. The same could be said for Carbery though, he showed great promise before his run of injuries and even though Joe liked him at 10 I liked the look of him as a second playmaker joining the line from 15, a role Lowe seems carved out for now. But you're right, Jackson was well ahead of Carbery back then.



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