Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Dubinusa · 12-11-2021 5:17pm

That's fcuked! I hope it's not true. Missing these lads would be awful. Fcuking covid

ionadnapokot · 12-11-2021 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155762#Comment_118155762

This match shouldn't be coached in Farrell's talk of "building towards World Cup". He has picked what he believes are his very best options right now.

4, probably 5, out of the 23 will not be at the WC.

With the oldest player at the heart of everything at outhalf and the captain. That is not building in anybody's world.

Breakdown of players age (32 and over) from the previous Nov internationals:

2021 5 out of 23 (Sexton, Healy, O'Mahony, Murray, Earls)

2017 1 out of 23 (Best rwc)

2013 5 out of 23 (Ross rwc, POC rwc, O'Driscoll, D'Orce, Boss rwc)

2009 2 out of 22 (Hayes, O'Gara rwc)

2005 2 out of 22 (Byrne, Humphreys)

2001 2 out of 22 (Clohessy, Galway)

Blue4u · 12-11-2021 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157018#Comment_118157018

A player under 32 could get injured or loss of form and not be available as well. All those 5 players could be at the next WC and 5 others in the squad might not. Great work on google but doesn't make a huge difference to my original point

The 5 you mention I don't see why they wont make the next WC. Unless injury is involved

Dubinusa · 12-11-2021 5:57pm

Of course it's building towards the world cup! The older lads are there due to the others not being significantly better. Loose head is a problem. Out half is a problem, but what is he going to do?

Cian Healy most likely won't be around in 2 yrs. Just my opinion. He's just lost so much of what he used to be. But who will step up? Ed Byrne? Not nearly good enough! E.O.S? Still not good enough. Wycherly? Being Kilcoyne.

The out half situation has been argued. Sexton is still the best option! He can only select what he feels is his best squad!

But, there is still time for some players to make a move. The furniture could be different come spring!

Interested Observer · 12-11-2021 5:57pm

Henderson would be a huge loss from the 23. The dropdown from him to (presumably) Baird is really big.

Blue4u · 12-11-2021 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157063#Comment_118157063

A couple of lads went on the beer during the build up to the last WC and it completely changed the squad for the WC. Nobody should be trying to predict who will/wont make the next squad at this stage with any certainty

ionadnapokot · 12-11-2021 6:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157062#Comment_118157062

Contract for 4 of them is up at the end of the season (Healy, Murray, Earls and Sexton).

I think PO'M will be phased out due to the back-row competition.

Doak i think will be taking Murray's spot before long and if i was to have a punt i would venture that all 5 wont be at the WC.

That is very much the point - This is not a squad picked for 2 years time. Its a short sighted 23 in some very important areas.

aloooof · 12-11-2021 6:36pm

Gerry Thornley with a great stat from last weekend; Keenan's 14th test, but first time playing in front of a crowd.

Dubinusa · 12-11-2021 6:52pm

I suppose Sexton will be retained if healthy. The others would depend on the talent around them. Earls is a fine player, but there's so much competition. POM, I think will be retained. Maybe on a provincial contract. His competition is really good. He's not a starter anymore, imo. With Coombes coming through and Timoney right there also, he's under pressure. Not to mention Boyle! Healy is in a better position! Lads I thought would have challenged him are falling short.

Dubinusa · 12-11-2021 6:54pm

I doubt there would be too many additions to the world cup squad. Phasing out older layers maybe! The replacement players are probably lads in or around the squad

aloooof · 12-11-2021 7:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157018#Comment_118157018

4 out of the 5 are on the bench, tho. And for how many of the 15 will this be their first test against NZ? Or even first Test against a SH side? Add in the fairly sizeable shift in attacking approach, and I think it's incredibly harsh to call it "not building in anybody's world".

TRC10 · 12-11-2021 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157018#Comment_118157018

People need to realise that you don't need to throw out everyone over a certain age, to build for a RWC.

Dane Coles is 35 and still in the NZ squad.

Moody, Whitelock and Aaron Smith are 33.

South Africa still have Vermuelen who is 35. Frans Steyn is 34

AWJ is 36. Ken Owens is 34. Jonathan Davies is 33. I could go on.

You can still build while picking your best team. When there's better guys available, they'll be gone.

And anyway, all but one of those guys you named are on the bench and are clearly being phased out.

Poorside · 12-11-2021 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157178#Comment_118157178

Earls won't be there, and neither will Murray, unless he gets the same treatment as Sexton when he went off on his travels.

Ardillaun · 12-11-2021 7:41pm

Our off-loading against Japan was unusually good and we put together some fluent attacks. Gibson-Park definitely added some zip to our back line. I’m not expecting a win against NZ, just another solid performance.

ersatz · 12-11-2021 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157539#Comment_118157539

Yeah, I agree with this. Us Irish fans are a bit obsessed with the World Cup because Irish rugby has had unprecedented success in the last 15 years, but we've been brutal in the WC. It feels like we can't really believe we are a good rugby side until we break that duck and get to a semi or a final. And it's true!

TRC10 · 12-11-2021 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157590#Comment_118157590

If you look at a lot of our team, the age profile is fantastic.

Porter (25), Kelleher (23), Furlong (29)

Henderson (29), Ryan (25)

Doris (23), VDF (28), Conan (29)

Nobody over 30 in that pack and only 3 will be in 2023 and 2 are our TH and a 2nd row (both 31) , which is basically prime years for both positions

JGP (29) but I can definitely see Casey or Doak overtaking him. But even still, 31 isn't old for a 9.

Sexton (36) is the obvious one, but he won't be there in 2023.

Aki (31) Ringrose (26) could both be at their best in 2 years. And if Aki is past it, Henshaw certainly won't be (he'll be 30 in 2023)

Wings are a bit of a concern. Lowe (29) and Conway (30)

But Baloucoune and Larmour (both 24) are both fine options and Stockdale is only 25

Keenan (25) is fine.

Add to that young lads like Sheehan, O'Toole, Ahern, Baird, Penny, Kendellan, Coombes, Hume, McIlroy, Osborne and we're fine

TRC10 · 12-11-2021 7:59pm

And by the way, we complain about conservatism here

but Wales are starting Alex Cuthbert on the wing against Fiji.

So yeah, I guess we don't have it that bad.

12-11-2021 9:01pm

1 player out of the starting 15 is questionable for the next world cup due to age. It's ludicrous to me that people disregard the entire remainder of the starting 15 because of this.

That's a bench with "won't **** up if we're ahead" written all over it.

There will be plenty of changes against Argentina.

I honestly think people are losing all perspective at this point.

Blue4u · 12-11-2021 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157642#Comment_118157642

I think it is funny the way people think Sexton won't be at the WC. Nobody knows. The same as nobody knows or can predict any of the players for the next WC, any of them could have a serious injury/loss of form.

I am sure in 2018 people could post the entire squad for the WC that Ireland would bring, apart from Toner, then when the WC was over people complained that players did move out/in. As fans we seem to be obsessed with age as if that means someone automatically should be in the squad

If Earls for instance is ripping it up in 2 years time should we disregard him because of age?

POM for instance seems to be a leader in the group and add's great value to the squad, he is still playing club rugby at a high level, should he be dumped because of age?

aloooof · 12-11-2021 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157942#Comment_118157942

Nobody knows, but you can look at the past and suggest levels of likelihood.

I posted earlier in the week the stats about the oldest 10’s in Tier 1 RWC squads. ROG is the current oldest at 35y 6m. If Johnny makes it, he’ll be 38y 2m, the best part of 3 years older. That seems massive to me.

Who knows what way it’ll play out, just from the law of averages, that suggests it’s very much odds against.

Blue4u · 12-11-2021 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158053#Comment_118158053

If you listen to BOD etc they will talk about the older days and then the new players coming in and taking a completely new approach to professional rugby. Heaslip/Fitz and Sexton was the ones he mentioned. Unfortunately both Heaslip & Fitz lost out due to injury so Sexton is the only one left.

As I mentioned earlier on the thread, Sexton and Carbery stood taking in front of us, one of them looked like they had been stuck together with tape and the other looked in great health.

If Sexton is playing well and fit then I see no issue why he can't make the WC if he wants to. If he isn't then he will retire I expect.

Clegg · 12-11-2021 9:53pm

The player who initially tested positive has since returned two negative PCR tests. The identified close contact has also tested negative. Ireland will line out as initially selected.

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1459263148444332032?t=5eELGXX-7HGeAYBB-SnNvw&s=09

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1459261781612933127?t=FGfp2FH53TgDgb7q21_4tQ&s=09

Neil3030 · 12-11-2021 9:56pm

"Herring and Henderson had initially complained of anosmia. However after follow-up examination medics confirmed that since they're from NI, they never had any taste..."

<flees>

MrTea · 12-11-2021 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158168#Comment_118158168

I chuckled...

aloooof · 12-11-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158086#Comment_118158086

Drico’s also talked in the past about how quickly things can deteriorate, specifically mentioning a story about how an average Pro 12 Welsh player skinned him on the outside.

We’ve seen similar with ROG and Best.

If Sexton’s fit he can make the RWC. But it’s a big if.

MrTea · 12-11-2021 10:13pm

Irish Times: Covid-19 False Alarm was just a precuationary step.

"Our medics put our replacement hooker into isolation due to concerns' about facial flushing, a known-Covid-19 symptom, but it transpires it was just a red Herring".

pickarooney · 12-11-2021 10:15pm

And we all took the bait

awec · 12-11-2021 10:52pm

Gordon has a good point :)

connachta · 12-11-2021 11:39pm

Tom Daly, nearing the Irish squad

Thornbury and Wootton, may have if uninjured.

Aungier and Duggan, from no gametime to potential solution in building.

Larbre34 · 12-11-2021 11:56pm

Philip Browne shouldn't be renewing any major contracts.

As good as he as been down the years, Browne is out the door, he should absolute not hand any fait accompli, concerning big appointments, to his successor.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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