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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    +25%....Gosh....are you suggesting it's actually all about the MONEY !! 😱 ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,865 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Yup that's it in a nutshell

    In Ireland we're OBSESSED with case numbers, I'd wager more than any country on the planet

    This morning I read an article by Fergal Bowers on 6 things that'll decide what Christmas looks like in Ireland. "De Numbers" came in at number 1 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    This indicates that the ONLY way out of this situation,is for Humans to cease being HUMAN ?

    From the moment of birth,when we,as infants are grasped tightly by our mothers,our ENTIRE lives will revolve around contact,physical.mental.emotional...call it as you see it.

    The extistence being proposed and actively supported by the CMO and a ,by now,thoroughtly frightened cohort flies totally in the face of Humanity.

    What the Covid Public Health Emergency (which it WAS at one point) has now become is a multi faceted opportunity for a group of proffessional Administrators and mediocre Politicans to secure and develop a new and far more all encompassing method of Governance.

    We as humans have always interacted with "Vulnerable" people....we have in our own lifetimes qften been "Vulnerable" ourselves,and had to get on with living in often challenging situations,some (Most) of us survived,perhaps with wounds or damage to our systems,but went on to live normal,productive lives...and long may that continue.

    Randomly broadening the definition of "Vulnerable",whilst coincidentally convincing normal,largely healthy people,that they are casting pestilence & death in their wake if they stir outside their door is a recipe for the collapse of the very civilization level that now has a life expectancy and general health level FAR beyond that of our ancestors.

    Just as with Climate Change "activists",who blithely discount the HUGE improvements made possible in our everyday lives by the Internal Combustion Engine or the Improvements in how we use fossil fuels for the greater good of modern humanity,we need to get people somehow or other back to living their lives realistically and reasonably sustainably.

    What we are seeing now,in a very broad sense is the abandonment of Reason.🤔


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    What you you call all the brave hero's who rose up against the British Empire? You're a shambolic mess. Log off



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    I think a barstool somewhere might be missing their idiot.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    A lot of barstools are since the covid cert requirement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Absolute fools with money to burn obviously. Why in gods name would you bother testing yourself if you'd no symptoms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Someone posts about being cautious around vulnerable people by doing a quick antigen test...and you spew that ^^^ onto the page?! Breakdown of society?! FFS. Get a grip.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭floorpie


    That's not the point. I don't care about me getting sick with COVID-19, I'll likely be fine unless I'm extremely unlucky (like 1 in a million). However I can spread it asymptomatically to people who are in age groups that have far higher odds of severe outcomes even though everybody is vaccinated.

    It's impossible to know if you're a close contact of an infection without testing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    In Ireland state TV had a contributor (the idiots name escapes me) on prime time call for unvaccinated to be denied entry into supermarkets and shops to buy food, that would not happen in the UK because they would be laughed out of the TV studio and rightfully ridiculed as twits. The nodding dogs on prime time where all in agreement that's how mentally deranged this country have become.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭floorpie


    What we are seeing now,in a very broad sense is the abandonment of Reason.

    There are reasonable odds that if an 80 year old in my life is infected, they could have a severe outcome even though vaccinated. I can't know if I'll infect them without testing.

    I agree generally with your post but I think it's sensible to be pragmatic given issues with hospital capacity. I wont continue testing once I know there are effective therapeutics, or proper vaccines that prevent infection, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭323


    No. Perish the thought.

    According to the Financial Times. Seems Pfizer jacked up the price because their product is sooo much better than the others.

    But guessing Minister Donohoe was jumping for joy at the thought of Revenue maybe getting just a wee cut of that 40+ Billion Euro, in corporation tax (that's assuming the new contract is payable in Dublin again and there's anything left after a wee touch of shifty “leprechaun economics”).

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Well...considering that the north is part of the UK, then yes, it would happen in the UK. The BBC are just a bad as RTE. The Stephen Nolan show, has, for months, been trying to put pressure on the executive to make vaccines mandatory for HCWs and to make vax passes necessary for entrance into pubs and nightclubs. He was even spouting about it one morning saying that they're required for pubs and nightclubs in the south, why can't we do it here (the north). He hadn't done his research as nightclubs weren't even open in the south at the time. There's loads of people that confidently post in here saying that this isn't happening anywhere else...it is. Just because you haven't heard it for yourself doesn't mean it isn't happening.

    Post edited by Penfailed on

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    Irish people have a lot of positive traits, but by god we are some of the most servile, submissive race of people on the planet. We’ve just replaced the Catholic Church and their teachings with the likes of NPHET and public ‘health’ advice. Calling up in tears that someone went to Spain is the same as Bridget ringing up the parish priest saying Mary didn’t go to mass last Sunday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    How do you know those unvaccinated who were hospitalised with covid contracted covid before going to hospital? That is surely important to know and I am guessing, given the epidemic in hospitals at the moment, that many of those in hospitals who caught covid caught it in hospital. It is not a given that unvaccinated covid patients in hospitals caught covid outside of hospital, which translates to the ineffectiveness of restrictions on the general public when the big problem is the staff and practices in hospitals.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Joe O'Shea is his name, I think.


    And even if something similar happened in England we know for certain that there would be pushback from Talk Radio, GB News, The Telegraph, Maajid Nawaz, Peter Hitchens, Lord Sumption, Unherd etc. Or at least they would put forward an alternative viewpoint.


    In the US Fauci is regularly summoned to be questioned by various Senators. Dr. Rand Paul regularly trades blows with him. Ireland's equivalent has never once been questioned about anything. Ireland really suffers for the lack of conservative viewpoints and media balance. But the appetite just isn't there, unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    One or two randomers, does not a country make.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    If you really think it's just one or two randomers at this stage in the game then your either wilfully ignorant or unknowingly part of the problem. I'd suggest trying to get yourself over to England at some stage if you can and then come back and tell me with a straight face that what is 'going on' in this country is any way normal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    The Irish medias abject lack of balance has been an issue for a good 10 years or so, particularly so in the last few years. It should of been nipped in the bud years ago, yet there was no general will to do so. Somehow the Irish people never thought that it was even a bit odd that every talking head in the media had the exact same views. Instead, Paddy assumed that they must all be right because they all share the same views. In my opinion, that's the whole point, to create a false consensus that will sway people to the side of the false consensus.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And given Nolan’s size he should be worried about himself instead of whats going on down here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    What, specifically, is 'going on' in this country that has got you so worked up? Part of what problem?

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    He should be very worried. He's a walking heart attack.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The BBC are indeed as bad as RTÉ. Actually RTÉ are probably a bit worse. But the difference between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland is the DUP. The DUP are the opposition up there (I have been disappointed, however, by how they've gone along with all the lockdowns. I didn't think they would) and the mentality in the North is different. They're more relaxed up there from my experience of being there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes




  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭FoFo1254122


    The numbers are very high for positive tests and if they continue to grow and hospitalisations and deaths grow too it will really be a disaster for this government and the medical professionals who have pushed COVID restrictions, lockdowns, vaccines, etc

    this is a ticking time bomb not just for Ireland but across the world

    if it becomes apparent that lockdown is the only thing that keeps this virus at bay, and governments lock down again we are looking at complete social unrest across Ireland and Europe that I think will turn very violent and could lead to war.

    if you look at history, it takes very little to start a war

    we all must be careful with our rhetoric and our actions



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's the main reason why Ireland continues to be so extreme in terms of covid. There's no room for debate. No alternative viewpoints allowed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Apologies if I didn`t make it clear.

    My point was that in relation to those vaccinated and unvaccinated who may have caught it in hospital, unless we know the numbers for both then it does not make much difference where they actually caught it.

    Seeing as we know that those vaccinated have a much lesser risk if they do become infected of serious illness or death, then does it not make sense that to reduce the risk for those that may now becoming infected in hospitals that all hospital staff that may come in contact with hospital patients are vaccinated as well as those visiting hospitals ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Does that mean you're knowingly part of the problem? Which is worse?

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Oh. We're going to war now? This thread is mad sometimes.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    If they caught it in hospital it means they weren't in hospital because of covid so therefore the vaccinated /unvaccinated distinction in hospitals is irrelevant. That's the reason for needing to clarify it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    I'm not sure if an actual source or just a kite being flown, but looking like little to no chance of more restrictions being introduced luckily. The Cabinet not panicking or being forced into anything rash because of NPHET. I particularly enjoyed that quote below, putting NPHET back in their box!

    Another source voiced how there is a level of frustration at Cabinet level with advice being issued as if it was government policy.

    Using the working from home remarks as an example, they said the government is being accused of “mixed messaging”, but pointed out that NPHET recommendations are just recommendations until the Cabinet decides.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    To use the Government's own words, they need to "Hold Firm".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭crossman47


    That worked well the last time they ignored NPHET. I have been supportive of NPHET generally (they are the health experts) but in the last month they have pulled their punches. I think government must be pressurising them to lie low. Otherwise how could any sane person agree to opening nightclubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Eh? You can only get into nightclubs if vaxxed. To keep nightclubs closed would be as good as admitting that vaccines don't work.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I honestly do not see what difference it makes unless there is a significant difference in the percentages for the vaccinated and unvaccinated relative to their percentile of the population if they became infected in hospitals.

    It`s not as if anybody who has become infected in any other settings were there because of Covid either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,849 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Well I think any sane person knows that Covid isn't going away and we've to get on with life now without closing down sector's of the economy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Astartes


    You know that meme with the dog sitting in a room that's on fire and he's saying "This is fine!"


    That's you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Watching the rugby imagine some day Dr Tony could be president of Ireland and we will have to stand up and salute him



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll give you a quick few:

    - Discriminatory "Covid passes" that were supposed to be temporary. Now the kite flying is starting re: extending them to gyms, hairdressers etc. The slow creep. Many of us warned about this.

    - Unelected NPHET members having the influence they do. Has anybody done a deep dive into these guys for connections to external influences (eg big pharma)? Lot of profits on the line here with booster programmes and the like.

    - Stephen Donnelly. No background in health. His two "special advisors" are ex-journalists. Laughable.

    - Near zero coverage of the "other side" to the argument. Why no panels on RTE discussing potential vaccine side effects and looking at those numbers, for example? Talking head puppets like Claire Byrne serve no useful purpose, and should be replaced by presenters/interviewers willing to present both sides of the argument. But oh, no, wait: RTE are simply the propaganda arm of the Irish government, hence we only get carefully curated "news" through that filter. Same goes for newspapers like The Independent.

    Absolute state of it all 😄



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,004 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    The barometer should be the numbers of Covid infected in patients in hospital, broken down into those who contracted it in the hospital, and those who didn't. Then issue numbers of those in ICU with the same parameters. Add in vaxed and non vaxed and there you have the real picture.

    Case numbers are useless except for behaviour control mechanisms but they are largely ignored now. People have to take packed buses and trains to get to work where they can't work from home correct? How do they limit their contacts? Just an example of the contradictory nature of the advice being given.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,849 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    To be fair I think Dr Tony's only fans are people of a certain age and those who are nearly to terrified to leave the house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Did you actually read the post that I was replying to? It was nonsense.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    You really need to stop fantasising about Holohan. It's an unhealthy obsession at this stage.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Taking each point in turn -

    I don't agree with the passes either. The government aren't currently inclined to extend them to gyms and hairdressers which leads into your second point.

    NPHET have influence, yes. It's the government that have to make the decisions...and they are. NPHET didn't want nightclubs opening.

    Name any country that has a health minister with a background in health. It's very rare.

    Don't watch or listen to RTE. It's better for your mental health.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I think it`s pretty obvious from media and even government that Covid passports are not going to be extended to cover gyms and hairdressers at this stage, so who is doing this "kite flying".Those that warned about it perhaps.?

    I really do not see what your point is on Donnelly and NPHET. You are complaining that Donnelly, an elected official, as Minister for Health has no medical background, yet at the same time you complain about the members of NPHET, who have medical backgrounds, should somehow be elected officials.

    Are you talking about cases where these vaccines have caused harm in significant numbers or are you talking about them potentially causing harm ? If it is potential harm how would those to be put forward such claims, seeing as it`s only potential harm, be represented. Would every crackpot who has a theory be allowed to voice their theory on potential harm where they would not have a shred of evidence to back it up be allowed to participate.?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    And if one of them gets a positive result they will then get a PCR test and end on the numbers. But of course as usual you know this and are just being argumentative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Is it not better to know whether or not you have it so that you can avoid passing it on? Of course, you know this but are just being argumentative.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES(x2), And So I Watch You From Afar



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Govt to seek more detail on extending Covid pass

    It didn’t take the Government long to roll over and bring the discrimination in elsewhere at the behest of NPHET.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    So everyone must test themselves every day? Just in case? THIS is exactly why there is no end in sight. People like you just cannot let this thing go.



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