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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,673 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    What utter nonsense. This is a high risk high reward game plan and mistakes will be part of it. Our gameplan the last 2 weeks are pretty much built for JGP over any other 9 we have IMO. A few mistakes but he did a hell of lot on the other side of the ledger which went a long way towards this win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,673 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Henderson and Ryan is our starting 2nd row. Henshaw is the only player not in the XV yesterday who may/will force his way in for the 6n if they are all fit/available


    That pack yesterday is the starting 8 for the 6n



  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    In fairness this is what we want to move away from - guaranteed starters. This is why we failed at the world Cup. We need to pick the in form players, now this is our best 8(Beirne could also slot in with no drop). Come 6 nations it could change a lot. We need the competition for places to drive on performances



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Joe had a squad of players and played a game plan he felt was best to win games. His 70+% win rate for Ireland suggests he knew what he was doing. He was our most successful coach ever so his track record also backs that up

    People forget Joe played the most attractive and attacking rugby in Europe when he was coach of Leinster, when he took over Ireland he looked at the players, looked at the opposition and looked at the time he had with the players and then decided how to play to win.

    If he had the current squad do you think he would still be playing the same style as 2019? he swapped styles after 2015 you have to remember as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭highball14


    What I’d go for against Argentina. A good mix I think.


    Porter Kelleher Furlong 

    Beirne Ryan

    Coombes VDF Doris

    GibsonPark Carbery

    Frawley Ringrose 

    Baloucoune Keenan Lowe


    Kilcoyne 

    Sheehan

    O’Toole

    Baird

    O’Mahony

    Casey

    Byrne

    Larmour



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I don't want to see us make too many changes for next week.

    In a World Cup you'll have to deliver a big performance 2 weeks in a row, that's what we should be going for. I want us to go out with a strong team and put Argentina to the sword and build confidence and momentum going into the 6N.

    I'd start Joey at 10. Maybe bring in Baloucoune and Beirne. But that's it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    No way should we run out the front row again. They have put in a serious shift in last two game.

    Also Ryan has played all minutes, hendo and Beirne with Baird off bench

    Backrow I would give Doris a break after his injuries woes last year.

    The rest, well Carbery to start.

    Henshaw is fit so maybe he gets a run? him & Frawley maybe at centre. Earls Balacoune & Zebo as back 3....

    All guesses of course but I would want to rest the 3 lads!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    No way should we run out the front row again. They have put in a serious shift in last two game.

    Also Ryan has played all minutes, hendo and Beirne with Baird off bench

    If you want to win a world cup you have to play 7 games on the bounce. That's been our problem at world cups, backing up performances week on week.

    Say we beat NZ in the 1/4 final, we won't be resting guys for the semi.

    They're professional rugby players, they can play 3 weeks in a row ffs. It's an 8 day turnaround anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    You win a WC with a squad, as we found out in 2015.

    We should have a backup front row who can start against the "lesser" teams.

    I do find this comment amazing, I am sure if you could search boards people would of went nuts after the WC because Joe didn't bring in players and have a bigger squad, more options. He kept playing the same people etc etc....here we are in 2021, two years out from a WC and people are saying not to change the team and bring in players?

    Are you saying to keep Sexton in the team as well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    We also need depth for when the injuries inevitably occur. That's why we should be using this game to play a lot of the alternatives - we've nothing else to prove this Autumn as far as I'm concerned.

    Is be going with Killer Herring O'Toole; Baird Ryan; Coombes Timoney Conan; Casey Carbery; Henshaw Hume; Balacoune Zebo Lowe



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Are you saying to keep Sexton in the team as well?

    Scroll up a bit



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    We need to prove that we can put a tier 1 nation to the sword 2 weeks in a row. Because to win a WC you must do it 3 weeks in a row.

    That team is utterly insane. 12 changes!

    If we beat NZ in a 1/4 final, we wouldn't dream of making 12 changes. Not to mention Argentina are a decent team who also beat NZ last year.

    Honestly I think people just want to see all the new players in for the amusement of it. I personally don't see the point in it. It's a test match against a tier 1 nation. We should field a strong team



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Will Connors will be back in the running soon? As will Stockdale!



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    So you want changes, just not the front row :-) the most physical role on the pitch.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    You don’t dominate the All Blacks if your 9 is playing poorly.

    Seriously this is absolute nonsense. He had a very good performance. Both Furlong and Kelleher were caught in no man’s land for NZ’s first try - would you say they were poor too? POM also missed a tackle just before his massive turnover, would you say he was poor when he came on? Or Ringrose?

    Looking for negatives to dismiss what was a very good performance is the level some have stooped to here. Very few rugby players have the perfect game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I don't believe that's what I said at all but ok



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    We don’t need to prove this 2 years out from a RWC. Especially when there is absolutely nothing on the line. Our props in particular put in a massive, massive shift yesterday. And they have their provinces to go back to, straight into inter pros and Europe. This isn’t a RWC so there’s no need to risk anything by going all out next week. I’d imagine we’ll see something like:

    Healy, Herring, Bealham, Beirne, Henderson, POM, VDF, Conan

    Murray, Carbery, Zebo, Henshaw, Hume, Balacoune, Keenan

    Sheehan, Kilcoyne, O’Toole, Baird, Timoney, Casey, Byrne, Larmour



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ireland look better with JGP. Faster distribution and better tempo. Could be a reason why the forwards are looking so good! Not to mention the backs. I think JGP is a stop gap player. He's going to be around for a while until Casey Knocks him off his perch! Or someone else. He's added a variation to our play that Murray just can't provide. Farrell rates him and he's played in big level games with Leinster. He's timed this move perfectly! Whether he can remain the starter, remains to be seen. I think he will be for this 6nations. He deserves to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Will Casey pass him out? I honestly think if anyone will it might be Doak. If Casey can push past Murray to start all the European games then maybe but I dont see it happening.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    We don’t need to prove this 2 years out from a RWC.

    But that's just it. We sort of do need to prove it.

    It's been our downfall at World Cups.

    Big performance v Italy in 2011, crumble v Wales the next week

    Big performance v France in 2015, crumble v Argentina the next week

    Big performance v Scotland in 2019, crumble v Japan the next week

    If players need to be wrapped up and rested after 1 big performance, why do we even bother going to World Cups? We may as well stay at home.

    We should treat this game like a semi final, and the NZ game was a 1/4 final. How do we back it up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    This Irish squad reminds me of the cantablacks we had a while back (14 crusaders + tana umaga) . Basically Leinster and friends. Obviously if you’re a Leinster supporter it’s all good but are fans of the provinces a bit worried that they don’t have enough players good enough to make the starting XV??



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Maybe Casey will but if we've another 9 who will put in a better performance than JGP did yesterday that is one of those good problems to have. A really good problem.


    I've watched the game again last night and skimmed through again this morning and definitely the best I've seen an Ireland team play. The 15 mins after half time was basically as good as I've seen any team play, it was total rugby in attack and defence. Every single player had outstanding moments. Think my MotM would have been Kelleher, he was on another level imo. Did not think Farrell & Co could get Ireland to this standard but obviously I was very wrong. Exciting times now heading towards the 6N but we have to back it up. Leinster playing this sort of style as well should help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    They shouldn't be, the Munster & Ulster academies are starting to produce and a number of young players will be pushing soon for spots. I honestly don't know about Connacht so cant comment

    It is up to those uyoung players to take the jersey, not get handed to them because they are young.



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Toeuptony


    I've always been very impressed with Henderson and think he's one of our best players, but I think some of his best performances come as an impact player off the bench with about 30 minutes to go. The energy and intensity he brings when he takes the field can bring a massive lift to the rest of the team.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    We will not be in a situation where we need 7 big games in a row from our starters. The RWC doesn’t happen like that. And the 6Ns gives us a run of big games every year as it is. The summer tour does the same. We’re off the NZ next year after all. That should provide an even sterner test for the side. There is absolutely no need to go balls to the wall for a game against a very physical Argentina 2 years out from a RWC the week after such a big Test. It’s taking a risk for no real gain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    The last thing we want is to lose momentum by losing to Argentina so I think changes will be minimal and I'd hope and expect that a lot of thought will be put behind them.

    I think everyone would expect Carbery to start 10 with Byrne on the bench. The issue there is do you risk having Casey on the bench. Do we want Casey and Byrne on the pitch in the last 20 mins together if it's a tight match. Is it not fairer to give one or other a more senior partner?

    I remember Stringer and O'Gara starting together against Scotland back in 2000 and honestly for the first 15 or 20 mins they were all over the place. They got it together and the rest is history, but personally I'd avoid having Casey and Byrne on the pitch at the same time for now.

    I'd give Dan Sheahen a start and probably give Porter more test match experience at LH. I'd probably rest Ryan and start Henderson and Beirne, unless they want Ryan to skipper, but Henderson can do that as well.

    I can see O'Mahony starting in the back row alongside Doris and Conan.

    As mentioned I'd go for Gibson Park and Carbery at 9 and 10. 10 is more critical than 9 in terms of developing options so Casey may have to bide his time.

    Centres and back three are anyone's guess. If I were Farrell I'd want to test someone else at FB and IMO the most likely candidate is Zebo. Id love to see Baloucoune get a run as well.

    It should be the most interesting selection of the Autumn anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep



    Even though it's total bullshit, Japan are a Tier 1 nation these days. So we have done it two weeks in a row.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,823 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, Henderson, Doris, O'Mahoney, Conan, Gibson-Park, Carbery, Lowe, Frawley/Hume, Henshaw/Ringrose, Baloucoune, Zebo

    Is what I'd go with next week.

    Porter and Furlong to be subbed off pretty early. Not even sure if Henshaw is fit.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I think there's a lot to gain from the momentum and confidence that will come with another good performance and a 20 point win over Argentina.

    Would you have issues with this side?

    1. Healy (Ports did play 76 mins so he can bench)
    2. Kelleher
    3. Furlong
    4. Beirne
    5. Hendy (c)
    6. Doris
    7. VDF
    8. Conan
    9. JGP
    10. Carbery (He'll gain a lot more from playing in a settled, cohesive team)
    11. Lowe
    12. Aki
    13. Ringrose
    14. Baloucoune
    15. Keenan


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