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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Would love to see Frawley get a go, another player who could add a lot to the way we're currently playing.



    Also, Sexton pretty much playing as well as he ever has. Mad stuff at his age.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    My team would be

    1 Cian Healy 2 Dan Sheehan 3 Finlay Bealham

    4 Ryan Baird 5 Iain Henderson

    6 Tadgh Beirne 7 Peter O'Mahony 8 Nick Timoney

    9 Craig Casey 10 Joey Carbery

    12 Ciaran Frawley 13 Robbie Henshaw

    11 Simon Zebo 14 Robert Balacoune 15 Jordan Larmour


    16 Rob Herring 17 Andrew Porter 18 Tom O'Toole 19 Ultan Dillane 20 Gavin Coombes 21 Conor Murray 22 Harry Byrne 23 James Hume



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Probably unlikely everyone from yesterday will be fully fit. Can't imagine Earls comes on for Aki if he isn't hurt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Frawley will not be starting.

    I rate him and I'm glad he's got into the extended squad and clearly Farrell wants to look at him but he's got a way to go before he's in contention for a starting shirt.

    He's currently 4th choice 12.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah I get the momentum argument. In all honesty I’m not wedded to any particular approach particularly. If that’s the team that’s named then fine. But for me we still have issues with depth and I’d like to see us put some work into that now.

    Argentina aren’t great. They are very physical but they’ve also played 2 in a row themselves with basically the same team. It’s the end of a long season for them so we should be able to beat them without going all out.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Going forward centre is a really interesting situation. Henshaw was unreal last season but his injury this season has given Aki and Ringrose both an opportunity to nail down the 12 and 13 jersey. And both have performed really, really well. Neither should be dropped but Henshaw has to play. How does Farrell make that call!?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    I suspect he won’t have to most of the time. Rarely have all 3 fit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    You're right we shouldn't go "all out".

    I'd advocate for 3 or 4 changes, because we have the players to do that without weakening the team. I definitely wouldn't make anymore than 5. That's enough to build depth like you said (which is important) but also keep enough cohesion and familiarity that we can play well and win handily enough.

    What I disagree with are those who suggest we essentially field a new XV, which I think is ludicrous for a couple of reasons.

    A. Argentina aren't mugs, they may be in poor form but on their day they can do anyone over.

    B. You learn very little from essentially playing a Wolfhounds team. The Fiji game in 2017 comes to mind, we won but we were utter crap and learnt next to nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    But we can make a lot of changes without fielding a Wolfhounds team as well. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. All of my pack were in the 23 this week. Another 3 of the back line were too. And of the 4 who weren’t there was Henshaw and Zebo. The bench had a good few changes but when they are coming on Argentina should be tiring and they can all bring real impact.

    Beyond that there was logic to a number of my selections. The front row were the bench options the last 2 weeks so are a familiar unit. The locks have both played well the last 2 weeks. The back row is effectively just giving Doris a rest. He was very active in close quarters and probably needs the rest.

    In the back line the Murray-Carbery partnership is the one we’ve seen close out games the last 2 weeks and are a familiar pairing. Henshaw-Hume is a similar centre partnership to Aki-Ringrose. Zebo is the most similar to Lowe. Can play make and has the canon left foot. In reality the only players we’re really looking at there are Hume and Balacoune. Both have loads of talent and plenty of experience around them.

    On the bench I’m looking to give guys game time to develop depth as much as possible. Killer is plenty experienced. Sheehan looks very capable. O’Toole is probably the most dynamic TH option outside of Furlong and I’m hoping the plan is to bring him along on that basis. Baird and Timoney can bring impact, especially against a tiring defence. Casey and Byrne are both guys who can bring real pace to the final quarter which, again based on the assumption that Argentina will tire, could be very effective. Larmour has plenty of experience and can bring real impact if things open up.

    So it’s a selection with an eye on development and an eye on winning the game, which I think is how we should be using this game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    They arent mugs, therefore its the perfect chance to really test some of our young players amongst experienced players. I mean, how else will they learn at this level, playing the USA certainly doesnt do that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I think you're missing my point.

    I want us to give 3 or 4 other guys a run this week.

    But not 15 all at once.

    I want Carbery to start with experienced players inside and outside him.

    I want Baloucoune to start in a settled back 3.

    I'd like to see Sheehan start in an experienced front row.

    I don't want us to throw all the youngsters in at once because it's pointless. It leads to poor disjointed performances and nothing gained.

    You have to be smart and balance it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭highball14


    Definitely some players should be brought in. Those saying we need to put 2 performances back to back like a World Cup, as someone else said that’s basically the 6 Nations. Also the last few world cups injuries have hit us so let’s beat them with a few key players not playing. I think everyone agrees Carbery has to start and Byrne on the bench. Murray rather than Casey with Byrne is a good point. I think Coombes deserves a start in the back row. Likewise Baloucoune on the wing. For me the more international experience Lowe gets to improve his defence the better. Whoever Farrell and Co rates as the better prospect out of Frawley and Hume should get a start in the centre, whoever starts out of those would decide who starts from Aki and Ringrose with Hume matching better with Aki and Frawley with Ringrose. It is a good idea to freshen up the front row but I would prefer to see Sheehan and O’Toole come in rather than Healy and Bealham. Kilcoyne is another one so I’d intertwine those 3 with the 3 starters when it comes to starting/bench. Baird should be on the bench.

    That would leave something like

    Kilcoyne Kelleher Furlong 

    Henderson Beirne

    Coombes VDF Doris

    GibsonPark Carbery

    Frawley/Aki Hume/Ringrose 

    Baloucoune Keenan Lowe


    Porter

    Sheehan

    O’Toole

    Baird

    O’Mahony

    Murray

    Byrne

    Larmour


    That team should beat Argentina. 6 changes which I think is perfect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭flatface


    I think they will make minimal changes to keep the continuity. I think Gibson Park should start with Carbery to give him the best possible chance of slotting into the same game plan. If 10 is the big question, we should change little else to test it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Have to say, I really wouldn't see the point in starting Murray.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Yeah I agree with that, its not just to test the players against tier 1 nations but you want to test them playing alongside Irish frontline players. For instance can Balacoune work in tandem with Keenan and Lowe in the Irish back three, can James Hume work with Aki or Henshaw in the centre etc, come the 6N we might be in an injury crisis and might have to throw Hume in there for instance, great young talent but inexperienced at test level, this would be his opportunity to show he can step up to this level. same goes for Sheehan, O'Toole, Baird, Casey etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Porter is an utter freak. Made the very difficult transition from loose head to tight head when he was 21. By 22 he was starting and excelling at tight head for Ireland in the 6 Nations.

    He filled in at 3 for an entire season when Furlong was out for year and performed excellently. Was selected for the Lions at tight head. Then transitioned back to loosehead, immediately took over as starter for Leinster and Ireland, and excelled against New Zealand.

    I think he's world class.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm in the fcuk that give it a lash team for this week! Argentina are a good opponent to get fringe lads into tough international rugby!

    I'd go with

    1. Kilcoyne

    2 Herring

    3 Bealham

    4. Henderson

    5. Dillane

    6. Beirne

    7. POM

    8. Coombes

    9. Casey

    10 . Zoolander

    11. Larmour

    12. McCloskey

    13. Ringrose

    14. Balacoune

    15. Zeeb

    16. Sheehan

    17. Porter

    18. O'Toole

    19. Baird

    20. Timoney

    21. Murray

    22. HB

    23. Hume/ Frawley.

    Not a young side! Plenty of experience!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Well, he didn't disappoint

    Imagine being a so called "Irishman" and being bitter about Ireland winning a game

    The man needs help



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    What’s with your man McKenna? Does he not like rugby or sport or what?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,997 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    I would like to use this game to give players who look good at provincial and international level against tier 2 nations as a way of seeing how they function in a first team Irish squad and if they can step up. I would like to see Hume, Balacoune, Casey, Baird (although we did see him in the 6N and he did well), O'Toole get a decent run and ofcourse Sheehan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    What an absolute tool. Himself and Paddy Cosgrave should be put in a rocket and fired into space



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    MacKenna is not worth listening to on any subject these days. Used to be a good sports writer, but has fallen down the anti everything rabbit hole over the last 18 months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Why? Why the hell would you post that muppet. People have him blocked for their sanity.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    He doesn't like Ireland, full stop.

    He's an attention seeking mouth breather. Not worth even discussing



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    This. We all knew what he’d be saying, we don’t need to be giving it oxygen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    What's more likely...

    52'000 people and another 23 are deluded idiots and he knows better than all of them and when they can be happy...

    Or he's a bit ignorant of the history and traditions of rugby?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    He’s an absolute irrelevance and we shouldn’t be wasting time, bandwidth or boards real estate discussing him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Ah he knows exactly what he’s at, but there’s little point discussing Sports Gemma (which, as a moniker, is genius).



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  • Administrators Posts: 53,825 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    MacKenna is a troll.

    This individual is not worth the time of day. Let’s move on.



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