The Irish protocol.

Heighway61 · 14-11-2021 6:33pm

He's been at it throughout the thread. Named a thread about the Northern Irish Protocol The Irish Protocol. Same as unionists calling the Good Friday Agreement the Belfast Agreement because they can't bring themselves to utter the words "Good Friday". And the Irish language being mocked in stormont and every obstacle put in the way of it's development in Northern Ireland.

My mother-in-law, who would be of the unionist persuasion, corrected me once when I referred to St. Stephen's Day to say it's called Boxing Day.

It's inherent.

downcow · 14-11-2021 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165471#Comment_118165471

Your prejudice runs deep. You can’t even see it.

the official name of the agreement you are referring to is the Belfast Agreement.

the official name of the city in the north west is Londonderry.

the official name of ‘the north’ is Northern Ireland - even the shinners agreed that in the ‘gfa’

i have only ever heard the day after Christmas referred to as Boxing Day, but now you raise it I think it might be St. Stephen’s Day as well

haha what’s most ironic is that I have now got in trouble on here for saying Irish rather than northern Irish 😂😂😂 you couldn’t make it up.

Speedline · 14-11-2021 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165281#Comment_118165281

You could say the same about words from any language. Why should any language change the way their words are spelt just to suit English speakers?

igCorcaigh · 14-11-2021 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165281#Comment_118165281

Oh LOL, my sympathies. I struggled with Irish in school, always my worst subject! I did try to learn a bit more Gaeilge in recent years. Learned a hell of a lot more than I did in school. I'm just not very good with languages though.

But it's just a language, people can be very prickly about it.

Speedline · 14-11-2021 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165559#Comment_118165559

You try to insult me by saying I have an inferiority complex, and in the same post try to say honestly you mean no harm.

You know exactly what you're at.

downcow · 14-11-2021 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165778#Comment_118165778

Lol. I was horrendous at languages. I broke a new school record for getting 3/100 for Latin. It was awful. I guess you were not subjected to it? My french was only a little better. Tbh my English isn’t good either 😳

downcow · 14-11-2021 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165832#Comment_118165832

Yeah, ok, hands up. That was a tad mischievous on reflection.

please accept my apologies

fly_agaric · 14-11-2021 8:11pm

Ah come off it downcow, it's mostly a dead language that cannot hurt you. You + forebears have been suffering with the barbarian tongue for 400 years or so now and are quite well used to its holdovers in names etc. I don't think anyone buys the little trolling/needling effort. Maybe give it up and post something about the NI protocol.

Anyway...On latter, UK gov. and David Frost seem to have gone temporarily quiet last few days. I'm wondering have they decided to hold off for a more opportune time to strike (e.g. some period of crisis in the EU, assuming they have no crises at home)? I always kind of thought after Chirstmas made more sense anyway.

downcow · 14-11-2021 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165970#Comment_118165970

Whether you believe it or not, those who have not done Irish at school are bemused how to pronounce, never mind spell, most names. I live in a very Irish area and, as unionists go, I have been exposed to lots of Irish names but they are spoken and make total sense. It’s when they are written down that I haven’t got a clue but learning

downcow · 14-11-2021 8:39pm

Arlene with an interesting piece on the protocol

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1521218/EU-latest-news-Northern-Ireland-border-agreement-IRA-Irish-nationalism-arlene-foster?s=09

igCorcaigh · 14-11-2021 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165933#Comment_118165933

I don't know! But Irish lacks some letters, for example V. There is no letter J, K, Q, V, W, X, Y or Z, so instead there is a combination of other letters. Also, there are gendered nouns, at least some traces of them. For example, Apple is ull (with the accent, I don't know how to type it). But an apple is an t-Ull. t- because apples are male, apparently.

Bh = W

Mh = W??

I'm not sure.

irelandrover · 14-11-2021 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165281#Comment_118165281

Is your question why is everything not spelt like the English pronunciation? Do you ask the same about French or Spanish names?

I also don't think it's coincidence that you picked that name. Theres no k in the Irish language. I'm sure you know that. You're going to pretend you didn't. But it's also impossible to believe you can spell caoimhe but not one of the most famous politicians in Northern Ireland history.

EDIT:Actually I looked again. You didn't even spell it correctly. Plus caoimhe and keeva aren't the same pronunciation.

So. I'll ask you a question. Why does the English spelling of Owen have an E? Why is Stephen spelt with a PH.

igCorcaigh · 14-11-2021 9:06pm

But, @downcow, I guess that the reason why we refer to Taoiseach rather then Prime Minister, is that the Irish language was given a status, at the birth of the Irish declared nationhood, as a way of establishing an identity. A way of reclaiming a unique aspect of a culture, which had been historically repressed. But you know this.

Now, how to be balance this "our" culture thing we have.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2021 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166107#Comment_118166107

Nothing 'interesting' is posted in the Express, it's a mouthpiece for sad old imperialists and Brexiteers.

Unless a litany of untruths and whinging is 'interesting'?

fly_agaric · 14-11-2021 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166107#Comment_118166107

Ah well at least its on the Protocol, even if it is Arlene Foster & Daily Express link!

ittakestwo · 14-11-2021 9:20pm

I was watching program about adults in the north learning Irish. They asked them their backgrounds and half the class were from a unionist background. It seems to be that Language lovers in the North want to learn it but now has become political as some in the north see the rise of the Irish language as threat. Many towns in the North with unionist majority like Ballymena name is derived from Irish. Obviously in more unified places like the South or Wales no one sees a the rise of Irish and Welsh as a treat even if they have no interest of learning it. Another sad sectarian characteristic of the north.

Junkyard Tom · 14-11-2021 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165942#Comment_118165942

It's a major aspect of Unionist culture. Unionists used to put green-and-white ribbons under the raised horse-hoof of King Billy's statue in College Green, Dublin, to demonstrate their pleasure at the Protestant subordination of the Irish Nation.

The 12th of July and marching season was, from the 1920's to 1998, little more than a unionist festival of hatred of Catholics/Nationalists in the north and celebration of their second-class status.

downcow · 14-11-2021 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166127#Comment_118166127

Fair questions and points.

I absolutely did not know that there was no ‘k’ in the Irish language. Is there other of the 26 English letters not included and do you have replacements?

i think (but I could be wrong) that most french and Spanish words written down are fairly easily stabbed at for pronouciation once you understand eg j is pronounced h

I used Caoimhe because a got an email from a Caoimhe last week to ring her and I hadn’t the first clue where to begin with the name so asked a colleague

I don’t get why Owen would not have an e but I totally agree about ph, why’s it not just an f And the silent h is another strange one in English

Irish imho is in another league when it comes to using letters differently

downcow · 14-11-2021 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166114#Comment_118166114

That’s really helpful. I had assumed you had the same 26 letters in Irish. I all starts to make a little sense.

why most letters the same but them several not used. Anyone know the history of that?

downcow · 14-11-2021 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165832#Comment_118165832

Ok apologies. I should not have used the term inferiority complex. That was antagonistic and I withdraw it.

igCorcaigh · 14-11-2021 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166564#Comment_118166564

I have no idea of how certain letters dropped out, but would love to know!

irelandrover · 14-11-2021 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166549#Comment_118166549

Owen and own are pronounced the same. Sent, cent, scent are pronounced the same. Anne and Ann is the same.

You understand French and Spanish pronunciation because you bothered your ass to look it up. Irish has a very clear pronunciation and spelling. As do most languages. Except English.

Is there other letters we don't use? Why don't you google it.

You almost seem proud of your ignorance of Irish.

downcow · 14-11-2021 10:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166632#Comment_118166632

Owen and own are pronounced very differently where I live.

definitely you are correct that all languages seem to contain some quirks. I didn’t look them up to understand them rather ironically I have been exposed to more french and Spanish growing up than Irish. I’ve engaged with loads of Irish names but hadn’t seen so many written down until more recent years.

I am not proud of it but you seem to think I have some duty to inform myself of Irish spellings.

anyhow this is miles off thread simply because someone got upset at my spelling of M McG - and I am certainly not going to try it without going back to google.

Fionn1952 · 14-11-2021 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166822#Comment_118166822

You've actively avoided exposure to the Irish language, Downcow. It is everywhere around you in NI place names. You see more Irish than French and Spanish combined on a daily basis, you just pretend you don't due to your weird cultural insecurity.

votecounts · 14-11-2021 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166107#Comment_118166107

Usual waffle from her, just another sectarian, homophopic DUP member trying to re write history herself by going against the protocol that she signed up to.

downcow · 14-11-2021 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166903#Comment_118166903

Actually I accept the bit of what you are saying. I am surrounded by it in place names etc. I don’t avoid it though.

I have unfortunately grown to associate it with the worst type of Irish republicanism and I guess that’s sad. You, me and everyone else on this island must take some responsibility for that situation

Fionn1952 · 14-11-2021 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166936#Comment_118166936

My absolute hole do I hold any responsibility for your hatred of the native language of the place you live, Downcow. The language responsible for your username on here for the record.

I've had precisely the square root of zero involvement in any activity that could have anything to do with your hatred of the language, so no I mustn't and no I won't take responsibility for it. Your bitterness is your own problem, and I'm delighted some people like Linda Ervine can be more grown up than you.

Speedline · 14-11-2021 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166574#Comment_118166574

Accepted.

ittakestwo · 15-11-2021 1:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118167070#Comment_118167070

Guinness is on tap in every pub in Ireland and Britain. You see it everywhere.

The crusty logic works like this. Despite being Irish I don't want to be Irish so if I misspell Irish names that will make me believe to meyself and others I am not Irish. I won't even celebrate ireland beating the all blacks as despite this being my team, it is being played by a unified Irish team which I despise..... I need sectarianism. Sectarianism is good unification is bad.

downcow · 15-11-2021 8:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118167121#Comment_118167121

This is back to non v anti (bit like sectarianism). You can be ‘non’ ie you don’t use Irish language in nasty, provocative or political ways - and I do believe you would not try do that.

But in my thinking, that’s not enough. People need to be ‘anti’, ie speak out and challenge every time you see it being used as a weapon against my community or used to wind up.

if it helps I will explain another way. I am not in loyal orders or bands. I try to challenge when they occasionally step outside what is respectful to the other community here. That’s being ‘anti’. Unfortunately I could do better and don’t always challenge, so I need to take some level of responsibility for remaining silent at times.

so, no I am not saying you put up the Irish road signs in areas they are not wanted, but are you doing enough to understand and articulate how that undermines support for Irish language in my community? - only you can answer that

The Irish protocol.

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