Heavyweight Boxing

Completely different styles and fighters.

For me, Toney was the greater pugilist. I am basing it off his 20+ years career

Best I have seen..

Well, whatever about GOAT status..

as regards talent/skills/toughness status, Toney is right up near the top.

anyway, it’s all personal opinions really.

huge factor in any GOAT debate is name recognition. Here, Toney suffers..

A MW McClellan also very dangerous for Jones!

both him and Hearns could get to Roy clean. Big, rangy, tall and heavy hitters. G man also had a very solid chin..

John Fury has advised Whyte to be praising and lovey dovey to Tyson, and this is his best chance at getting a title shot. Act the hard man and aggressive stance, and Fury might tell you where to go!!!

but there still was logic in those predictions. So, I wouldn't read into them too much.

Wilder and Fury could fight another 10 times, and it wouldn't be odd, off or silly to think that Wilder gets a win(s).

It's wee little things here and there that can change fights, and more so when you have a hitter like Wilder..

I re-watched the fight again, and a very slight thing that Fury did when he was caught clean by Wilder in round 4 likely saved him being even more hurt, and possibly knocked out. Watch when the Wilder shot lands....Fury moves onto it, but slightly tucks the chin/head into neck/chest, and he allowed himself to absorb the punch better than had it caught him flush to face/jaw.

These split second moments can make wins and losses...

Also, AJ-Fury yet to happen.....Not at all odd to think AJ can win....Yes, Fury will start favorite, but hardly a huge upset should AJ beat him; same for Usyk. I think Fury beats Usyk, but Usyk could make it very competitive.

For somebody supposedly so skilful Toney was regularly outboxed.

Nunn couldn't be caught on the cards before the 11th round finish.

Against the slick Reggie Johnson, Mr. Indestructable was put on his arse in round two form a single left hand. By no stretch of anybody's imagination was Reggie Johnson a big puncher. A lot of people (me included) thought Reggie won that fight.

Both Mike McCallum fights were close tough fights, where there was a strongman v a slickster. Toney was NOT the slickster. His head was knocked back repeatedly by 35/36 year old McCallum's jabs and he was made look very, very amateurish by McCallum's pivoting. He did however, land the heavier punches, so it's a case of what you like. However, don't waste your time watching the commentary that includes Sean O'Grady's non-stop fawning over Toney; even as Toney was swiping at thin air, he was praising his 'skills'. O'Grady sounded like he had marked his scorecard before it even began.

Roy Jones fight. 12-0. Different class!

Montell Griffin beat him twice. Griffin was a very skilful operator, yet Toney is the one that gets praised for his 'skills'.

Drake Thadzi wasn't quite the nobody that Dave Tiberi was, but he wasn't a whole lot better. He lost to any decent fighter he fought, but he beat Toney.

Unlike others, I don't go on about fighter's losses when they are miles past their best, but I couldn't let go the fact that Samuel Peter actually outboxed Toney in their second fight. Peter was a strong, hard-hitting and tough heavy, but Toney was probably the only boxer he ever outboxed.

Toney fans never shut up about his win over face-first sluggers Iran Barkley and Vassilly Jirov. I don't like being disrespectful to boxers but everybody those two fought was more skilful than them! They relied on toughness, workrate and good power. Three years before, Nigel Benn destroyed Barkley in one round. Four years before, an ancient, fat Roberto Duran beat Barkely. If you were to get a computer to create two boxers to suit James Toney's style perfectly and make him look way better than he was, it would have created Barkley and Jirov.

Back in the 1980s certain people used the term 'media creation' to disparage the great Sugar Ray Leonard. Well, I use the term 'internet creation' to describe James Toney's skilset. Since the advent of the internet there has been a small cohort of dedicated, deluded, disciples of James Toney who go on and on and on and on about his talent and skills. His performances and results don't back it up.

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Fight fans need to watch Toney-Nunn closer. Nunn was an exceptional boxer: Tall, fast, rangy and a lovely mover. Top 3 P4P in 1991.

The cards don't tell the story, and nor does compubox. Toney was not being clearly out-boxed. Hell of a lot of Nunn shots being counted were blocked and parried and slipped. Toney was the one landing the harder and cleaner shots all night, breaking Nunn down mid to late rounds. Score cards were not as wide as what was happening. It was a far closer fight.

That win from Toney was far from a lucky punch. Nunn was being broken down, and it was Toney getting on top the last few rounds. It was an excellent display from Toney. In the pocket all night slipping, parrying and countering solidly the whole night. Pure innate skills.

Great fight and show from both men. One best MW fights the last 30 years.

Yep...agreed....

Two very different styles. Jones for me was more an athlete come boxer and Toney a born fighter.

Both exceptional boxers/fighters/talents

I have 0 issue with anyone saying RJJ is greater, or the GOAT. It's just a bit silly when some take it a bit oo serious when any analysis and assessment may appear to be negative.

What I love about Toney was his fearlessness, calmness, coolness and balls in the ring. I don't think I have ever seen a more calm and composed boxer/fighter. Nothing phased him.

And his actual skills were beautiful to watch. Cleanness, preciseness, smoothness. As well as one of the greatest inside fighters ever.

Yes.....so many idea and views and opinions, and how one weights each area/criteria.

The MW/SMW eras the past 40 years probably has thrown up the tastiest debates/fantasy scenarios of all time.

Imagine a tournament at 160-168 with Hagler. Hearns, Leonard, Nunn, Eubank, Benn, McCallum, Jones, Toney, Hopkins, Froch, Kessler, Ward, Calzaghe, Canelo, GGG, McClellan....

Likely none come out undefeated...

I was thinking him, but needed to draw the line somewhere...

Looking at the list I'd have the top 5 as Ward, Calzaghe, Toney, Jones and Kessler....as in these lads probably do best in the tournament...

Genuine question: Why is it when James Toney moves his head to avoid punches it's called a 'slip' or a 'roll', but when Roy Jones moves his head to avoid punches it's called 'reflexes' and 'athleticism'?

Prime Kessler was circa 2006/2007. Hearns would definitely have the frame and reach and size and boxing skills.

I just reckon Kessler has the size and chin and power to take Tommy mid to late. Tommy will land, and often, but I’d be confident that Kessler takes it, gets to Tommy’s body and closes the show..