Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

RichieRich_89 · 15-11-2021 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170391#Comment_118170391

Larmour:

doesn't have a left foot like Lowe or Zebo or Stockdale, which they seem to be looking for in the left wing
isn't as good a defender on the right wing as Conway and Baloucoune
isn't a natural playmaker fullback like Keenan and Zebo, and is unreliable under the high ball

He's a talented player, but it's hard to see where he fits in exactly. Maybe on the bench.

EachSmallChime · 15-11-2021 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170187#Comment_118170187

"Carty will not be in the mix to replace him and that is the truth"

Apparently, it's not the truth, despite what you or I think about him. If Farrell called him up, he's in the mix.

My point is not to ignore Carty issues, it's to put them in the context of out half competition. The same criticism of not being consistent can be leveled at Carbery, Healy, Burns and R.Byrne (H.Byrne hasn't played enough to even be criticized).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's mixed messages not to give Carbery and H.Byrne minutes against Argentina, so we won't see Carty (unless Byrne was **** in training). But until someone else puts in a serious game (and I hope Joey does on Sunday) then Carty is definitely still in the mix with some promising young lads.

stephen_n · 15-11-2021 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170543#Comment_118170543

It could be leveled at Ross Byrne, if you had never seen him play and knew nothing about him. Other than that, no you couldn’t say he has any issues with consistency. He is too slow and offers no gain line threat. That’s a very different issue though.

OneLungDavy · 15-11-2021 5:35pm

Farrell and co deserve a lot of credit for sticking with JGB. When most of us were scratching our heads over his selection, Farrell said "he's our man". It shows confidence in a coach to ignore the hyped provisional first choice players (Cooney, McGrath) and trust your own judgment. The same can be said for Lowe.

EachSmallChime · 15-11-2021 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170570#Comment_118170570

That is true and all things being fair, I shouldn't have included him on that list, for that reason.

Former Former Former · 15-11-2021 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169775#Comment_118169775

The fact he is called up means he definitely is still in the picture and that the decision to leave him out for Harry Byrne was probably closer than we guessed.

Well, no, it doesn't - but it does tell us that he's (currently) ahead of Ross Byrne and Billy Burns.

He's probably relying on an injury to Carbery or Harry to be involved this weekend but he gets another chance to show the coaches what he can do in training.

Blue4u · 15-11-2021 5:51pm

eidt

EachSmallChime · 15-11-2021 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170638#Comment_118170638

Probably the best way of putting it. We now get a clearer picture of the 10 depth chart.

Sexton, Carbery, Harry Byrne, Carty, Ross Byrne/Burns/Healy/etc.

We can see how far away Carbery is from catching Sexton (far!) and how far away Carbery is from everyone else (pretty far).

We have no idea how the rest rank in Farrell's eyes but Carty getting called up is significant to the conversation. It's also worth mentioning that, Jack Carty and Dave Heffernan were on the pitch with the team on Saturday but didn't take part in drills so the conversation. I wouldn't read too much into it because it's probably covid related but if we're trying to read Farrell's mind, it's interesting.

Blue4u · 15-11-2021 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170638#Comment_118170638

Byrne and Burns at this stage are not in the picture unless injury

Hopefully Healy etc get more game time with Munster and start to push. We should be the following going into the WC

Sexton/Carbery

H Byrne/Healy/Crowley/Flannary(in whichever order depending on progress)

Then

Burns/Carty/R Byrne

If Sexton drops out then one of the others to step up, ideal would be a Crowley or H Byrne to jump everyone and push Sexton out of the starting position

Dubinusa · 15-11-2021 7:01pm

We really should not be hopeful that Healy gets more playing time. He must take it. I believe he can and will. Same goes for HB at Leinster. He has got to get past his brother. I guess we can hope and wish lads were better.

I rate Healy! I really like him as a possible star. He is in a decent position right now. He should get Munsters next 2 starts. Then there's Flannery and Crowley! Munster are loaded at 10.

Podge_irl · 15-11-2021 7:04pm

I don't think there is an issue with HB getting ahead of RB at international level without it happening at Leinster level first. Its not ideal, but RB's shortcomings just aren't such a big issue at provincial level. But to become a solid starter at international he will have to do so alright.

Neil3030 · 15-11-2021 7:27pm

We're yet to see how Harry Byrne responds to Farrell's pulsating manliness. Does he up his game like JGP?

Blue4u · 15-11-2021 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171132#Comment_118171132

I think the huge jump we seen in JGP started long before he played for Ireland, for a long time he was never playing competitive games with Sexton, once he got a run of games with Sexton having a word in his ear his performance took a huge jump

molloyjh · 15-11-2021 7:56pm

With Munster heading out to SA this week then Healy was never going to be called up. Maybe Carty is the next cab off the rank, but maybe not. I don’t know how much his selection this week really tells us.

TRC10 · 15-11-2021 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171132#Comment_118171132

A few players seem to have taken their game to a new level when they pulled on the green shirt lately.

JGP being one, Conway being another, Lowe hasn't been setting the world alight for Leinster of late, neither have Ryan and Ringrose yet they've been excellent. Carbery looked way more confident than he's been for Munster the last 8 months.

Farrell by all accounts is a great man-manager and seems to be getting the best out of a lot of players.

dublin49 · 15-11-2021 9:00pm

Thrilled with Carty call up ,think he is a great player ,as a Leinster fan I think he should be num 2 to Sexton and wud imagine he would be if he enjoyed the number of armchair rides the Leinster pack provides.I think Carbery has flattered to deceive and potential was confused with the finished article.R Byrne is too static and all the rest are unproven or in Burns case not as good as Carty.

bilston · 15-11-2021 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171243#Comment_118171243

Ah I can't see that being a factor Molloy.

Ireland will always take priority over the provinces. If Carty had been selected then I'd say there is little doubt he is next on the list. If Harry Byrne or Joey Carbery get injured in training then Ireland will want the next best option available.

bilston · 15-11-2021 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171244#Comment_118171244

I had to laugh to myself watching Ger Gilroy on OTB this morning worrying about England going after Farrell to take over from Eddie Jones. How the narrative has changed!

Podge_irl · 15-11-2021 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171562#Comment_118171562

Yup. Andy Farrell doesn't give a shite about Munster's tour to SA. I have heard variations of this in the past, but the Irish coach will pull in whoever he wants and that's it.

molloyjh · 15-11-2021 9:47pm

If there was an outstanding candidate then I’m sure it wouldn’t impact. If there isn’t, which I don’t think there is, then I don’t see him leaving Munster with 1 out half on the flight to SA just so he can have a back up to the back up on Sunday, especially if he isn’t fully sold on any of the options.

Podge_irl · 15-11-2021 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171760#Comment_118171760

Maybe, but I genuinely don't see it coming into his considerations one bit. He'd just tell Healy to grab a flight on Sunday evening.

Blue4u · 15-11-2021 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170532#Comment_118170532

The unreliable under the high ball is similar to the Lowe can't defend department.

his form at 15 before the 6 nations was shut down for covid was exceptional. High balls and all.

Never seen anyone say his defence was poor? he has played on the wing against some of the best wingers in the World without any issues.

15-11-2021 10:19pm

https://twitter.com/boringkearney/status/1460350078460342274

RichieRich_89 · 15-11-2021 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171841#Comment_118171841

He's inclined to stay too narrow or come in off his wing too much if he's playing on the right. Look at his awful defence for Maitland's try just before half-time in the 2019 final (3:47 in the video linked).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJSEj4jggLY

Zeugnis · 16-11-2021 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170824#Comment_118170824

To put Flannery and Crowley, with just four and five caps for Munster respectively, ahead of Carty is pure imagination. And with the reduced number of fixtures they're going to have a lot of difficulty even getting to play for their province, unless Joey gets crocked again. In fact, I'd be shocked if one of them doesn't move at the end of the season.

aloooof · 16-11-2021 10:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171841#Comment_118171841

He definitely has the occasional defensive issue and issue under the high-ball, tho. I'd rate a number of the other options as more secure than him in that regard.

When rugby returned in Aug 2020, he had 2 notably poor games from 15 pretty close to each other, the first game vs Munster and the QF vs Saracens. Since then, himself and Keenan have swapped positions and Keenan hasn't looked back. I don't think Larmour has started another game from 15 since?