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Formula 1 round 19: Brazil GP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203



    Why should Max have backed out at silverstone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,541 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Hamilton was miles away from the apex in Silverstone, his car was about the same as Max's above. Max probably knew that and braked as late as he could. He keeps the angel as it is but he was already off the racing line, so the apex was never on. At this rate as well, his tires were all done from what i have read, he was out of position and braking late.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But by that logic someone can brake 20 metres late and once they get alongside they have the right to the corner. He braked far too late to make the corner. If the car had a ton of grip we don't know about then he didn't bother to try and make the corner. Either way he's in the wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Nothing really in it. Max onboard shows he breaks late to try and keep ahead of Hamilton which causes him to miss the turn, I don’t see any attempt to run Hamilton off the road. It could have been a penalty in the race but considering the stewards relatively quickly came to a decision then and the new footage shows nothing damning I can’t see them giving him a retroactive 5 second penalty. At best to keep Mercedes happy he’ll get a 3 place grid penalty for this weekend.

    Its only comparable to Silverstone in that it was a desperate manoeuvre by one driver to keep up with another - however this time Max’ late breaking and the low speed of the corner gave Lewis time and full visibility to the other car which allowed him to react. Max had neither of those at Silverstone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    So Hamilton isnt allowed to go up the inside like silverstone because Max has the right to stay on the racing line, hamilton was held to be more at fault, and got a 5 second penalty.

    He's not allowed to be ahead and go around the outside like sao paulo because Max has the right to break so late he just runs off the road, no lock up, just keeps going straight.

    Max also thinks its ok to swerve on the straight.

    Do people actually want to see a race or just the max procession?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    It was an aggressive racing incident at best, that's exactly what I want to see from two lads going for the championship. Hard,aggressive and wheel to wheel racing from Max and Lewis. When the two of them battle each other on track, neither of them will back out and to be honest I wouldn't expect them too



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    People brake late all the time, it’s allowed and Max is a master of it! If someone brakes stupidly late and causes a crash then of course they caused a collision but in this case no crash happened and Max was very close to making the turn and if anything cost himself time!

    But I digress, when does the corner start? That was my question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    My understand is that at the corner the car with the front wheel ahead has choice of line and that’s generally what the stewards look at! In this case Lewis was ahead approaching the corner, but by virtue of braking late, Max was a wheel length ahead at the point of turning.

    I can see the line Max was trying to take, just go wide and hope the switcharoo doesn’t happen but he missed it by a cars length, which I’d imagine is easy to do with a rocketship like that Merc up your ass trying but get by!

    I don’t think he ran him off the road on purpose and do think he was trying to take the corner as wide as possible (which if he was ahead at the turn he’s entitled to do) which comes back to why I’m wondering whens the “corner”



  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭mista11


    Lap before

    Lap after

    Conclusive



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,229 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Can't they change their engine over a weekend before they go into parc ferme? So they could do practice on the older engine and qualify and race on the newer engine.

    In other words, they can manage their engines to suit themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭flazio




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Yeah your right actually, parc ferme begins once the car leaves the garage for Q1 so they can manage that way. But practice is only a small % of laps over a weekend so even by doing that, is there a huge saving?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,229 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Surely not a huge saving, as you say. It's about whether they can turn the engine up to 11 or not so it might make a small difference in those terms. It would be a small difference in the engine but the engine seems to make a big difference.

    With that said, the 3 practice sessions are about a race distance so almost half the weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    They’ll crunch the numbers and if the savings translate to X% of performance they’ll do it! That’s not a Merc thing tho, they all would! Dolla billz speak!



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,759 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Absolute rubbish.

    He was nowhere near making the corner, not at all close, and only didn't crash cause Hamiton swerved to avoid his wreckless driving - and the result was instead of being passed, Max maintained and extended his lead....



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,229 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah absolutely. Just checked Hamilton in Mexico as an example. He did 64 laps in practice and the race is 71 laps. Add 15 laps for quali and practice is 43% of the weekend. Granted practice can be done at lower engine modes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    Even Hamilton said racing incident after the race, leave it at that and move on. Merc got the win which is the most important thing for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I’ll need to look at a still again but was Max even a cars width off track?

    EDIT: Just watched the video, yes he was way off!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    More patience than me mate haha! I didn’t realise they ran so much in practice tho! I’d have said maybe 30 laps total!



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,759 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor




    how far off the track, never mind the 'racing line' does he have to have been in your opinion for him not to have come anywhere close to making that corner? FFS.

    'Very close' in your view.... unbelievable. Hamilton was going to make that corner til Max pushed him off - they would have crashed if hamiton hadn't bailed out - either outcome is what Max was aiming for with that 'move'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Yeah just edited my post as you posted, didn’t realise it was that far off! Despite watching the race haha



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    And went on the lead the next 10 laps and win? Or put him in a wall at 51G?



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,759 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    so Max should have dove off the track and avoided hamilton like lewis did here... so the crash was Max's fault in your view? Cause the only reason they didn't hit here is because Hamilton saw Max had no intention of making the corner and bailed out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Amazing how Lewis knows when another driver won't make make corner but doesn't know when he can't make the corner like Silverstone.

    They didn't hit because Max kept turning left with Lewis on the outside unlike like Lewis turning left with Max on the inside in Italy.

    Like I said before, it was a stupid risk to take by Lewis. The pressure might be getting to him and clouding his judgement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,759 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    laughable. Max aimed his car off the track - and pushed hamilton off with him. They didn't hit cause lewis turned right when verstappen made no attempt to stay on the track himself, never mind leave width for Hamilton.

    As for Italy - your position now is you never have to be alongside, or capable of making the corner correctly, as long as you are on the inside of the corner. So you must then think Hamilton was 100% ok for Silverstone - its Verstappens fault he hit the car on the inside, no? unless your opinion is based purely on not wanting to blame Max. which certainly appears to be the case.


    I can't see how it was a stupid risk. It was as clear an overtaking opportunity as it had been on all the other drivers he passed in the same spot over the weekend and the risk was only if Verstappen decided to run him off the road, which he did - which is the same risk he would (and seemingly will) face every time he tries to pass max.



  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Lawlesz


    Wait, you expect a driver who is defending to use the same line as he would when not defending?

    Whatever about the various POV here (I'm on record as saying I think it was over the edge) but your pictures prove absolutely nothing here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭Hijpo




  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    It's very clear in the video that Verstappen had only about half lock on the steering entering the turn. He was always going wide and didn't even attempt to tighten the lock until he was off track. Hamilton was always on the outside. At best, he deliberately didn't try to avoid a collision. That's not acceptable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Just realised I had Channel 4 highlights series linked so watched the Sprint highlights again.

    What penalty did Sainz get for pushing Max off in the same place on Lap 1? None. Was it even noted by the stewards? No.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    I think lap 1 incidents tend to be ignored unless it's serious, like not going around bollards



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