TFI Fare Revisions from 28th November 2022 Including New 90 Minute Fare.

To people asking about the measuring system for the new <3km fare on the city buses:

The distance fares are going to be based on some sort of a hexagonal grid overlaying Dublin city and the shortest route possible between any two given points on the network. What that means is that if there are two or more routes connecting two particular stops and one meanders around, the fare will be the lowest fare possible by any service. To take an existing example, somebody going from say Sutton Cross to Harbour Road in Howth should be paying the same fare regardless of whether they take the H3 or the 6, and that fare should be as per the H3 as it offers the shortest distance connection.

Personally I wholeheartedly agree with the approach to offer the lowest possible fare regardless of route taken, and it's something I respect from my experiences of the Japanese railway system which works just like that. However, it's unclear whether this means the shortest distance possible by any mode, or just on the bus network...

In areas where BusConnects services dominate the network but old network services still remain, those old services will be converted to the new system, dropping the stages. Elsewhere where there are no BC services yet, the old stages will continue to apply, and the short distance fare will cover 1-3 stages.

So yes, a price increase for anything on the old network.

I for one would prefer the €2.30 price be the standard price and not just the promotional fare, but eh, fuel ain't gonna pay for itself I guess.

Is there a map going to be made available?

No idea. Charts for every route under the new system are meant to be made, but no clue whether they'll remain internal documentation or be made public.

now that 4-13 and 13+ stage fares are combined does that mean that bus users can now tag on using the right hand validator?

They need to be replaced anyway. So when are they going to be replaced?

Thanks, it was extremely unclear from the document I had at hand as to how exactly the fare would be established - whether by the road or as a straight line.

I used the example of the H3 and 6 on the previous page, but this could honestly have a hilarious result of a route going to a higher fare for a number of stops before returning to a lower fare again because the route "loops back" into a <3km distance from the same stop.

The TGX150 machines have a mode of displaying every destination stage as opposed to the simplified three fares used by DB all the time (in fact, some GAI drivers prefer to have the full list even on the city routes, I assume to help them with learning the routes better, and of course BE use it as the only mode), so I wouldn't be surprised if on some routes drivers would switch to the "all destinations" mode.

Other than that, I had read that new fare charts would be prepared for every route anyway, or at least for the BC routes and any old routes that have much in common with new routes. It'd be best if these fare charts were made public, as cumbersome as I expect them to be with the amount of stops on every route...

Sorry if it's a stupid question but if the trip is more than 90 minutes but you tagged on various modes of transport i.e Luas, train than bus within 90 minutes does that come under this new standard fare.

I don't care about the short fare passengers tbh

They are taking up seats and increasing dwell time when they can use other options like walking or cycling much more easily than those with long journeys.

Priority should be getting people out of their cars and that means a faster service - with a seat - on the medium and long trips.

One-third of Leap card holders still interacting with the driver after restructuring the fares is mad tbh, as is still accepting cash.

My typical LUAS journey will cost 6 cents more for a round trip

@lxflyer you're unlikely to be doing your weekly food shop during peak commuter hours though are you? Maybe what's really needed is a peak time minimum fare. But yeah I find the complaining about the short fare going up to be a bit much. A flat fare structure would have a lot of benefits.

Actually, I would generally make that particular journey between 5pm and 7pm on a weekday.

But that was but one example, but there are plenty of valid reasons why people may make short journeys by bus right across the network. People use the bus to get between lots of other places other than the city centre, short and long trips, and for all sorts of reasons, given the dominant role that the bus plays in Dublin’s transport.

Just because you don’t make short journeys, doesn’t mean you have the right to tell other people that they should be paying a significantly higher fare because you’re they are allegedly delaying you.

It is the most ridiculous argument that I’ve heard in ages frankly.

As I said, the bus service is there to serve everyone.

Minimum fares used to apply on longer distance routes at peak periods to protect people who had no other alternatives. They still apply on Xpresso routes. It would be very difficult to apply on Spine routes given their integrated nature.

I am delighted to see the 90 minute fare coming in at last and I think that it will make a huge difference to how people utilise public transport once everyone gets the idea. Personally, this will make a big diffrence for me now, being located close to two modes and having ditched the annual bus-only ticket due to Covid home working.

A question:

The full fare determination document states that Xpresso Leap fare at €3.00 will include "enabling free onward transfer for all passengers within 90 minutes". If an Xpresso route is the second part of a multi-part journey, will you simply be charged a €0.50 top-up fare after initially being charged €2.50 on your first tag-on? I would assume so but it doesn't appear to explicitly state this anywhere.

An observation:

The disconnect betwen the Irish Rail 90-minute limit and the bus network is ridiculous. At the very least, any location served by both rail and bus should be able to avail of the 90 minute fare regardless of what mode or modes are used. Its is absurd that, for example, one can travel from Dublin City Centre to Greystones by a single DART journey and be charged €4.90 but if you hop off at Bray and on to a 84/184 to complete the journey to the very same spot, you'll only pay €2.30.

Not clear yet. I think, if a short made and then another (long) made within 90mins from the initial tap, the initial 1.60 Euro should jump to a total of 2.30 Euro. So, first tap 1.60 Euro and second tap 0.70 Euro.

Exactly! 90 minutes fare isn't the same as the existing Leap 90 discount: https://about.leapcard.ie/leap-90

Seen citymapper just implemented this new feature for Dublin, in perfect time for the launch of the new fare system!

It currently only displays the adult fare, and doesn't separate the fare for each bus if taking multiple trips unfortunately - although that's understandable given the limited resources they would have had to build this data set with.

It seems like they're basing it on the Right-hand validator fare (aka the max fare) from seeing the prices it gives