Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

it doesn't seem to have got much coverage.

fantastic news though.

Will they make a big glossy project of it with brochures, consultants, public consultation?

Would prefer just simple direct construction myself

I'd imagine that the first article is mentioning the amount the EU are putting towards the project while Eamon Ryan's announcement is the full amount for the the project. A lot of this project is enabling works rather than full electrification isn't it?

You say this as if IÉ set transport policy and have the power build new infrastructure. This power comes from central government, which saw fit to keep using more expensive diesel rather than handing over the cash as a lump sum for widespread electrification.

I do agree, we're painfully late to the electrification party and there is currently no serious plan at the moment to decarbonise transport other than letting the electric car industry and global trends do their thing. We've not built any new pt infrastructure since luas cross city.

they are diesel because successive governments wouldn't stump up the cash for electrification.

british rail wanted, and in some cases planned to electrify many of them decades ago, but lack of funding, and then privatization, got in the way.

What work though? Pre planning?

Yeah I can't see a double track to Midleton for at least 5 years. I don't think the bridges can take the double-track and there's a good few of them.

We're talking very old stonework bridges too, it's not going to be an easy job even if planning approval is already in place. Which it's not.

No it wasn’t.

No. it wasn't double track, but many single-track were built with double-track overbridges, which may well be the case with Midleton. Those Victorians were ambitious and forward-looking.

Looking at the Midleton line on Google Maps, I was actually surprised by how few bridges there are, was expecting more. Width only seems an issue on maybe 5 of them, height for overhead cables may be an issue on others too. Looks like there are a few places where one new bridge could be built to replace two existing bridges.

The scope of works to electrify the Maynooth or Kildare lines as part of DART+ seems much bigger. Had assumed the lines around Dublin would have needed less wotks for such an upgrade but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'd expect works in Cork to move relatively quickly.

Quick glance at Google maps shows 16 Road Bridges over the Cork to Cobh line. If half them are big enough to allow overhead lines (a generous assumption given the age of most bridge structures) that's still 8 bridge rebuilds or track lowering. Maynooth line DART, a mega project in its self, has about 6 such problematic bridges afaik. So yes Cork's DART (CART???) is definitely a huge job.

I was talking specifically about the Midleton line (as stated in my post) which was the topic of conversation. Like I said, I wouldn’t expect every bridge to be replaced, I'd expect at least one case of one new bridge replacing two existing (eg. The two west of Carrigtwohill Community College). Obviously there are places where the existing single track has to be doubled on the Midleton line, in addition to electrification. This will require widening trackbed, moving existing and laying new track, drainage, earthworks, ducting, bases for cabling supports, etc. When doing all this, they may also lower the track bed to get under an existing bridge, if it is wide enough (eg. east of Carrigtwohill United AFC).

The Cobh line is probably more complex. It may require a prolonged closure east of Rushbrooke to lower the track under the bridges on approach to Cobh. There are two bridges to Marino Point but I'm sure they'll be replaced by just one.

What you're describing, such as one new bridge replacing two existing, is actually large enough. For local context, there are significant plans in that area. The whole area is zoned for development in the next 7 years. Short of diverting the rail line to a new immediately parallel one, it will not be easy. They're building a Kildare Village style surface mall there and large volumes of houses and industrial estates. What you can see on Google Maps is not an accurate reflection of what's currently in place. You'd end up needing to do a significant enough roads project.

What could be done is routing one of the two tracks slightly apart from the other, allowing you to keep the existing bridge structures and put in two new adjacent bridge structures immediately north of the existing. But I don't see this being done in two years. I'm not saying it's impossible whatsoever, just that it's a reasonably large volume of work and will take a few years.

The County Council intend to make that whole area their next phase of "city outside the city" and are fighting hard to get it done. They've just re-zoned the whole area a few weeks ago. The link to the LAP is here: https://corkcoco.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=636e600103264fd4b1ba0ff1a73966e1

CT-I-02 has all ground works complete. CT-I-01 has a Part 8 recently completed and approved for an East-West cycleway here: https://www.corkcoco.ie/en/planning/traffic-transport/statutory-processes (Bury's Bridge, Kilcoolishal to Carrigtwohill via Glounthaune. See sheet 11.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% in favour of what you're describing, and I again am absolutely not saying it won't happen, but unfortunately what looks like agri land on the map already has some plans.

Now, they might simply cast aside all plans too though.

They did exactly that recently, by approving a surface mall for cars on CT-B-02, CT-B-04, CT-B-09 outside of the previous LAP. Council went all the way to the court to fight the Planning Regulator to get it done. So a Kildare Village style sprawl mall is intended right at the base of the tie-in to your new conceptual bridge. The planning for this will likely be lodged by someone on behalf of Rioja Properties soon. That will significantly affect the road network in the area too, I'd imagine.

As an aside, your linked video is from CT-R-01 and it's currently being developed. Foundations and kerbing for Link Roads are in place now but no blacktop. It's quite obvious from the LAP what the underpass in the video was intended for (a "sweetner" deal, to encourage a housing developer to break ground).

Sorry for all the tangents. Just saying that I don't think those two bridges, nor the next one, or the one at Carrigtohill Train Station will happen in two years. They're the old stonework bridges that would need doing. I'd say 5 years would be possible maybe. But I cannot see double tracking to Midleton in 2022. Absolutely no way, no how. They might break ground on it and start planning, maybe.

Yep that's all reasonable, it was Marno above were saying the spend will be in 2022 for on-the-ground work on double tracking and a few of us reckoned that's optimistic, is all.

I'll be absolutely delighted if the area gets new infrastructure to be honest.

Height isn't the only issue, width in places too.

If you mean to try avoid a tender, no. They already use contractors for various bits of conventional work albeit they do have their own staff, kit etc also; but something this big will be tendered out.

They do have staff that are able to work on electrification kit, or else they wouldn't have been able to run an electrified setup for the guts of 40 years; but they wouldn't have the in-house resources to do new electrification - at least not while maintaining maintenance elsewhere.

Yeah I saw the same, a platform at the existing passing loop, with train on one side and tram on the other.

As I understand it the problem was that the Dublin trains would sit on the platform inside the main building, blocking the place up and not allowing through trains. This would alleviate that a bit. Would be great to see some development of Kent to be honest.