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The Irish protocol.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭trashcan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,737 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So are you claiming that the FIA did not use the flag of the driver's licence as was the standard practice at the time? Can you provide your source for this please as the information disclosed to me at the time by Dawson St was as I've posted (I was quite involved in motorsport back then)

    To my knowledge, the only mistakes regarding national anthems in F1 were for the Jordan team's first race win (the 1998 Belgian GP) - although an Irish registered team, they could not find the tape for Amhrán na bhFiann so stupidly played GSTQ. Also Red Bull Racing's first win was also marred by the playing of GSTQ rather than the Austrian anthem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭trashcan


    It’s good, but it’s no Teenage Kicks. (Jake Burns has been eating a few pies, hasn’t he ?)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,737 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We could have two anthe...oh wait! 😁

    The guy who took the photos for the first Undertones album cover taught me photography in college. Took a lot of photo's on Bloody Sunday too as a staff photographer for the Derry Journal (Not the famous white handkerchief one though). Interesting man, the lads asked him to do a freebie photo shoot and he was probably as proud of that as he was of anything he'd done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,737 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They are still at it...this from 5 minutes ago.




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Dividing Ireland is one of the greatest acts of political violence ever inflicted on the Irish people. Those who highlight that the reestablishment of a hard border, a unionst wet dream, would incite civic resistance are only speaking to the reality of the above.



    Unionists and the British Government have demonstrated that the Irish Nation can never be at ease until we end UK jurisdiction in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,641 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Just as NI has no flag, it also has no anthem. And for similar reasons; there isn't a sufficiently coherent, distinctive Northern Ireland identity to allow for the adoption of symbols of that identity which can command broad assent.

    Matter are complicated by the fact that the great bulk of those who do claim a "Northern Irish" identity do so instead of, rather than as well as, claiming a "British" or "Irish" identity. So presumably they wouldn't be happy with something like GSTQ as an anthem for that identity, or the red hand flag of the 1922-73 unionist regime as a suitable flag. (Similarly, they presumably wouldn't accept anthems or flags with nationalist/republican associations.) They might feel that someone - no names, no pack-drill - arguing for GSTQ and the red hand flag to be used to symbolise/represent Northern Ireland was attempting to Briticize/unionize their identity, and they might not be too happy about that.

    I'm reminded of something I read by Alan Paton, the South African author of the mid-twentieth century. He recalled that South African supporters of the apartheid regime generally favoured Die Stem van Suid Afrika] (which exists in two versions, English and Afrikaans) as an anthem, while White liberal opponents preferred God Save The King, and non-White or more radical opponents favoured Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika. At meetings at which cross-community goodwill prevailed or was supposed to prevail, all three songs were sung, including both versions of Die Stem. This took up quite a lot of time. As Paton drily noted, "Perhaps fortunately, such meetings were rare".



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    Well I for one am confident you aren't unknowingly engaging in it anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Leo can do what he likes. My problem with this is that if unionist politicians dare to say there may be trouble if there are checks at Larne, the are told they are threatening violence. Why the double standards ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is now completely rediculous. That’s like saying the people of cork don’t have a national anthem because ss belongs to Dublin and Ireland.

    whether you like it or not the official national anthem of the people of NI is gstq.

    having said all that, I am a big fan of having a separate sporting anthem so I could certainly compromise. After all it’s not me that is being unreasonable.

    I could live with any of these arrangements ie

    ss & gstq played

    roi & ni sporting anthems played

    one all island sporting anthem played

    no anthem played.

    is there anything reasonable there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This was a serious suggestion by many ni football fans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    It hard to find clear evidence either way. All YouTube videos I can find of him on the podium after winning it is gstq being okay and union flag flown (I’ll post them if you like). I do know there was at least one occasion that ss was played by mistake.

    here’s a more recent piece from Eddie and he does clearly mention his affection for Norther Ireland and his daughter going to school in one of the most pro-British towns in ni.

    we may have to agree that our memories are different of this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Haha. Not sure how to take that fash.

    are you saying I am ‘knowingly’ engaging in same stuff as some republicans on here or I am not engaging in it 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,641 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The Republic has an official anthem; NI doesn't. There's a disparity which can't be (a) waved away, or (b) blamed on the Republic. The Republic, after all, is not preventing NI from adopting an official anthem. And it seems unreasonable for people in NI to suggest that, because they haven't adopted an anthem, the Republic's anthem can't or shouldn't be played.

    I don't think the two sporting anthems thing is a practical flyer; the Republic doesn't have a sporting anthem. A single sporting anthem makes a lot more sense, and of course the IRFU does have "Ireland's call". SFAIK they use this, and this only, at away matches. At home matches, they use this along with Amhrán na bhFhiann if playing in the Republic, but without any national anthem if playing in NI, since NI doesn't have any anthem, official or sporting, that isn't divisive which, obviously, is not a problem the IRFU can solve.

    That still leaves the possibility of just using Ireland's Call on all occasions, and I could live with that. But I do think that, if the IRFU doesn't adopt that policy, to round on the IRFU is to miss the point, and perhaps to deflect from it. The fundamental dysfunction here is not the IRFU's; it's NI's. The IRFU's dilemma and their failure to resolve it calls attention to NI's dysfunction, which I get is distressing, but the only long-term solution is to address the dysfunction within NI. The IRFU ceasing to play Amhrán na bhFhiann in Dublin isn't going to do much for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,282 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    So using your logic the national anthems of Wales and Scotland are not Flower of Scotland or Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, grand so you should probably go tell them then?

    Show me where GSTQ is officially listed as being the national anthem of NI specifically and not just the UK or England. Is it any wonder your so woefully informed about how things work down here like believing Leo Varadkar is somehow in charge of the IRAs actions but not even knowing that NI, where you live, doesn't have an official anthem or flag then it all makes sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    Id say that would depend on the Unionist politician. If Gerry Adams did what Varadker did, I'd say you could have a point, but Leo Varadker come on 😂

    It is more akin, as you said, to Theresa May doing it ( she is as likely to be out planting bombs as varadker) and it wouldn't even cross my mind as being a threat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,641 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Because the two cases are not the same.

    As regards the land border, when their were controls on it, they regularly came under attack. It's hardly "threatening violence" to point this out.

    By contrast, there have been checks at seaports for many years, and they never came under attack. And if those checks need to be increased in order to accommodate a hard Brexit, when the politicians warning that violence may result are the very same ones who have been enthusiastically backing hard Brexit, in complete disregard of the wishes and interests of NI, the impartial observer is likely to think that their motivation for warning about violence is not quite the same as Varadkar's. They didn't let their concerns about violence stop them from backing Brexit, and from throwing their weight behind the campaign for hard Brexit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    I also think there's a dishonesty at the heart of unionist criticisms of LV warning of violence. I think that some of them quietly relished the prospect of dissident republican violence occurring, so they could then send up a loud chorus of condemnation of other tribe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    GSTQ was played at Belgium 1998 because Damon Hill was, and is, English. The norm when the driver and constructor are racing under the same flag is to play the anthem once, which I think confused people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    I propose 'Alternative Ulster'!

    Edit: Francie beat me to it... Great choice! 😅

    Post edited by J Mysterio on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    I would be surprised if anyone was engaging in anything as malignant as you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I'd almost rather the lads stood to GSTQ instead of the absolute puke that is Ireland's Call.

    Christ I hate that song. Always so flat, especially compared with watching the passion of the Scots with Flower of Scotland or the French with La Marseillaise.

    That being said, I'd have to be fierce petty to let that stop me enjoying the sport and following the team, so I tend to just have a wee moan about it every so often and then get on with watching and supporting the lads.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Jordan were registered in Ireland, not England (despite being based there)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I can't believe this has come up again. How many times does @downcow need to be told this for it to actually sink in?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    Yes, but because Hill was English (despite living in Ireland at the time!) they played GSTQ for the winning driver. People at the time thought the single anthem had been played because Jordan were being treated as British, when in fact the organisers didn't have a copy of Amhrán na bhFiann. If Ralf had won and they have only played Deutschlandlied it would have been clearer what the mistake was. (Though as a Hill fan I was happy with the result.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Choochtown



    I have a 40 year old pristine 12inch by 12 inch copy of that exact photo! ... with a lovely slab of vinyl inside. 😃

    Great album!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Absolutely. Quite apart from any political considerations, Ireland’s call is an abomination.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,737 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think I have a signed print the lecturer gave me of the album pic somewhere.

    They were a super wee band live too.



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