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National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    So we have both:

    Of further potential concern to the department is the fact that Eir’s network rollout in NBP territory is expanding all the time.

    According to well-placed sources, the number of homes and businesses passed by Eir in NBP areas is increasing by several hundred per month.

    and

    For its part Eir said it is not building in areas to be covered by the NBP, despite the Business Post’s evidence of a clear overlap between its rollout and that of NBI.

    “Eir's current fibre build programme is focused on urban locations, cities, towns and villages across Ireland. Eir is not building in the rural geographical intervention area which forms the government’s National Broadband Plan (NBP),” a spokeswoman said.

    I don't doubt the veracity of the Business Post claims about the several hundred a month, but what's the benefit to Eir? Surely rural fibre rollouts are a distraction for them at this stage with the urban focus? And much as people feel it's a waste of NBI duplicating fibre where Eir already have it, surely Eir would consider rolling out fibre where they know NBI fibre going to equally be a waste? Seems like a political move, more than anything else?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Pique


    Ah the weekly hatchet job on the NBP by the Sunday Business Post.

    They repeat the same line from last weekend's article

    So far, only 17,000 or so of those homes and businesses can access the network.

    When NBI puts the number at 27758

     the government's €5.7 billion National Broadband Plan

    In paragraph 2...cue the outrage at the cost

    Based on the maximum state subsidy of €2.7 billion,

    Oh yeah, further down the article in paragraph 12 we get to the more accurate (yet still wrong) figure of what the project will cost the state.

    A spokeswoman for Eir said its current fibre build programme was focused on urban locations, cities, towns and villages across Ireland.

    Eir is not building in the rural geographical intervention area which forms the government’s National Broadband Plan (NBP),” she added.

    Data seen by this newspaper, however, shows the overlap between premises to be covered by the NBP and those already passed by Eir has increased consistently month by month, however.

    It's like a stuck record at this point from the SBP. They are implying that Eir are lying about building in the NBP area and will continue to build out the network over the IA and seem willfully ignorant (or are being disingenuous) that there were thousands of people in urban areas ignored by Eir that are only now being reached by Eir after they were included in the IA. The fact that Eir refer to the rural areas doesn't seem to have clicked in the authors head. Or it did and they don't care and will just ramble on.

    For its part Eir said it is not building in areas to be covered by the NBP, despite the Business Post’s evidence of a clear overlap between its rollout and that of NBI.

    “Eir's current fibre build programme is focused on urban locations, cities, towns and villages across Ireland. Eir is not building in the rural geographical intervention area which forms the government’s National Broadband Plan (NBP),” a spokeswoman said.

    They even literally copy-pasted the same quote twice.

    🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    I'd love to know who is leaking the information to Peter O'Dwyer. There are a lot of smaller providers with access to both open eir and NBI systems. I suppose it could also be eir themselves. Somebody has an axe to grind for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Not clear if there are any leaks. It could be either the extra 40k in the 300k concession or it could be Eircom mopping up urban failures in the IA that they claimed they were going to, but decided against signing a commitment agreement. Depends what they mean by infill premises.

    Below is Eir's submission to the mapping consultation 2019.




  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    It's not the 40k, as I said in the other thread they were removed and NBI will not be passing them.

    Someone is feeding Peter information that is not publicly available and is likely under an NDA. He or someone else has probably cross-referenced Eircodes in the intervention area with the open eir APQ file. Neither the list of intervention Eircodes nor the APQ would be available to Peter.

    He even references an "informed source" in one of the articles.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,540 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    That reminded me of the government's press release back in 2019

    Following the announcement of the European Commission, the Department can now confirm that the final intervention area is now confirmed at 537,596 premises. The following changes to the map have been made:


    37,000 premises originally identified as being served by commercial operators (the “Blue” premises), have not materialised and will therefore be included in the intervention area and the map has also been updated for approximately an additional 2,000 premises identified in the latest Ordinance Survey Ireland data


    Eir has passed approximately 34,000 more premises than the 300,000 it had originally undertaken to pass with its fibre rural network and SIRO has passed 4,000 premises in the intervention area as part of its wider fibre network rollout. These approximately 38,000 premises have been removed from the intervention area.


    gov.ie - Government Signs Contract for National Broadband Plan (www.gov.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Thanks. That still leaves the possibility it's mostly urban VDSL failures. The article doesn't actually break down the share between urban and rural.

    Anyone who has a National Eircode file could subtract the blue areas to find the intervention Eircodes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,540 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Had a look in my DA, Newport (TY), survey planned 2025/26, Newport town specifically, Hill Crest Manor on the outskirts of the town as an example

    Approx. 41 houses in the newish estate had eir FTTH rolled out earlier this year, they are also in the NBP intervention area and surrounded by NBP premises. Other premises scattered around the area with eir fibre and in the intervention area also.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Is there any evidence that the NBI will actually run FTTH for these premises though?

    The may have to run past them to get to the excluded properties , but they aren't exactly going to run a second length of Fibre up the driveways

    There were always going to be place like this where in-fill locations overlapped with clusters of houses.

    In the example above , Eir covered the housing estate because it was cost effective to run to a cabinet in there etc. to get to ~40 customers but more than likely they didn't connect the 1 offs on the roads leading to the estate for the exact same reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭clohamon


    That's very interesting. Maybe there's a day out for the lawyers on the definition of 'encroachment' (hopefully not). The DECC map is showing a surrounding blue boundary for the estate, and below it is the April 2017 version. Eircom would probably argue that they have until 2026 to fix up anything within the original blue boundary.

    Business Post should come up with actual number of new Eircom connx that lie outside the blue boundaries.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    As it currently stands NBI will run fibre for these premises. The issue is not the running of fibre up their driveways, it is the fact that the premises have to be surveyed, then they have to be designed, then they have to be built with all the ancillary splicing and cabling work that that entails. All this takes resources and time away from premises that will never be passed by eir and pushes them further down the line.

    This is the consequence of eir being excluded from the project.


    There is an active estate fibre programme being run by open eir separate to the IFN. This would be part of it. joe123 has talked previously about an intervention area estate in his town that was also enabled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Mor-Riomhaire


    Fibre splicing taking place on the N63 outside Roscommon Town, Roscommon DA, in anticipation of the 1st December go-live date.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭lukin


    An NBI car called to my gaff today and the driver gave me a flyer entitled "High-speed broadband is on the way". But I'm in one of the areas that won't be done until 2025. Also why give it to me in person? It seems like a shocking waste of money when it could easily be posted out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,911 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    A sponsored Eir piece no doubt. Common parlance for such an organisation. Especially with their new



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,540 ✭✭✭✭The Cush




  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭mun1


    Fedamore Co limerick changed to ready for connection today . Just got a call from KN to install fibre on 1st December .

    Delighted



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭Hococop


    Not too far away from you and same, available to order, so signed up with eir, about 2 weeks, so like you probably start of December



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭db


    Went live here this morning also. Been on pre-order with Digiweb for months so got on to them looking for an installation date. They said to wait for a call from NBI regarding covid health checks and then someone from KN would be in touch. Just had Eir here a few minutes ago and they are calling door to door looking for subscribers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Pique


    Why did you go with Eir, out of interest?

    Considering that if it was left to Eir we'd never get FTTH, and the overwhelming amount of complaints, I'd avoid them on principle.

    But that's just me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭Hococop


    I've never had an issue with eir, obviously I've seen the negative press but I've had no issues with them, also is the unlimited data, I know with digiweb it's 3 terabytes but myself and my brother would be big into gaming, yesterday had 2 games with updates, one was 140gb and the other was over 80gb, brother could be the same



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    I would have thought Fedamore was in the Adare or Hospital DA's based on https://nbi.ie/where-are-we-working/ ?

    Is that map accurate with respect your location? Congrats BTW. Great to see some movement!



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭mun1


    We’re over the ballyneety side of fedamore so



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭cargo


    I see the Dundalk DA is gone from PreOrder to Ready to Connect. I ordered a week or two ago with VF. Haven't got an install date yet so hopefully get the call in the next few days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,911 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Unless your downloading those games every day you'd struggle to eat 3 terrabytes gaming or not :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭mun1




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    The National Broadband Plan may not be back on track and achieving its initial targets until 2023, the Minister for Communications has said.

    Eamon Ryan, the Green Party leader, said the multi-billion-euro rural broadband scheme had encountered a number of challenges in the first two years of its rollout which had delayed its progress.

    National Broadband Ireland, the company established to deliver the plan, had initially planned to pass 115,000 homes and businesses this year, but has scaled the target back to 60,000. So far, fewer than 20,000 of those homes and businesses have been passed by the network.

    Asked at the Oireachtas Communications Committee how long it would take NBI to catch up, Ryan said: “I would imagine it would be the following year, not next year, it may take that long to catch up.”

    The plan aims to deliver high-speed broadband to more than 550,000 homes and businesses currently without access to a reliable, high-speed connection, having expanded from about 540,000 at the beginning of the scheme.

    Government has estimated the total potential total cost to be near to €6 billion when Vat and contingencies are included although a subsequent Vat ruling by Revenue has reduced that figure by about €200 million.

    The maximum state subsidy payable by the taxpayer is capped at €2.7 billion.

    Ryan said the difficulties encountered by NBI to date included poor access to ducting, challenges around obtaining licences from local authorities for works that were being carried out and delays caused by the Covid-19 pandemic.

    He said the latter two issues had largely been resolved but added that the challenge around existing ducting not being “as accessible as originally projected” remained.

    “I think the catch-up in terms of Covid may take longer,” he added.

    The Business Post last week reported that 45,000 homes and businesses in the NBP intervention area had already been passed by Eir’s network, raising concerns about the potential for taxpayers’ money to be wasted by NBI reaching those same premises with its network.

    Alternatively, the company and the Department of Communications could choose to strip the premises from the NBP and allow NBI to claim up to €100 million in compensation for encroachment by private operators in the areas earmarked for the plan.

    Ryan said his officials told him that the number of premises already passed was not as high as 45,000 but was unable to provide the committee with alternative figures.

    “My summary of the assessment I got from the department this morning was that the overlap with Eir is not [45,000] and that the issue is not undermining the NBP contract,” he said.

    Speaking in the Dáil on Tuesday, Ossian Smyth, the junior minister in the Department of Communications, said he had noted the Business Post’s reporting on Eir having passed tens of thousands of premises and described it as “great”.

    “That is great as it means these households now have a choice between different suppliers, whether it is the subvented supplier or a commercial supplier. That is an advantage which was foreseen in the contract and accords with what was in the tender and contract,” he said.

    Asked at the committee by Ruairí Ó Murchú, the Sinn Féin TD, whether the necessary due diligence was carried out in deciding on the intervention area prior to the contract being signed Ryan said he had asked his officials the same question this morning.

    “They came back with real reassurance that they were very confident that the proper contract approach had been taken and that there is due diligence,” Ryan said.

    Whilst in opposition the Green Party leader raised concerns over the NBP’s value for money and suggested that €1 billion could be wiped off the cost of the project by utilising ESB’s existing infrastructure when building the network.

    Ryan told committee members today that the project was one which would “deliver real value for money”.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson



    Some rural residents in Northern Ireland who suffer from poor internet access have been told they do not qualify for a £165m ultra-fast broadband scheme.

    This is despite the fact that new fibre cables are passing their homes.

    Project Stratum promises to deliver full-fibre broadband with speeds of up to 1 gigabit per second to 76,000 rural properties.

    It is part of a major investment run by the Department for the Economy.

    Anyone who lives in an area where a broadband service with a speed of 30Mbps is already available or expected to become available soon is excluded from the scheme.

    Some residents who say their connection is much slower have told BBC News NI they have been unfairly left out.

    Gabriel O'Connor's family lives five miles (8km) from Belleek, in County Fermanagh.


    Image caption,

    Gabriel O'Connor said peple were being excluded but derelict buildings were being included in the scheme

    He said it can be "really frustrating" to access the internet.

    When he entered his address into an online eligibility checker, he said he was "dismayed" to discover he was not included in Project Stratum even though the cable will pass his home.

    "We've always struggled to get any internet connection in this area," he said.

    "In the past, I've had radio broadband then I went to satellite broadband then I went to Wi-Fi broadband and in the last year I managed to actually get connected to the internet over my telephone line, but I only have a connection speed of 7Mb per second.

    "This new service promised up to one gigabit, 1,000Mb, as you can appreciate at the moment I'm on seven, so if I could get 30 I'd be more than happy, that's four times what I have at the minute."

    He said some of his neighbours have also been told they are excluded, while some derelict buildings in the area are currently included in the scheme.

    "There were some houses where I know people are crying out for a decent broadband connection were excluded, yet they were going out of their way in some cases hundreds of metres up the lane to a derelict house that nobody has been in for 25 or 30 years."


    Image caption,

    Cathal O’Connor says his house, on the left, is excluded while his father’s home, on the right, is included

    He has sent emails to the Department for the Economy to challenge the eligibility criteria being used for his property without success.

    It is the same story for his cousin, Cathal O'Connor, who lives further along the road.

    A small antenna on his roof provides a wireless internet service, but the connection speed can be slow, especially when his family are using multiple devices.

    He was also hoping to benefit from what he says is a "fantastic project" but he is concerned that some people are being left out of this "very essential service", particularly children who need to study remotely.


    Image caption,

    Cathal O'Connor said he was disappointed to not be able to access the scheme

    "I was quite surprised to see that our home wasn't eligible for this new hyper-fast broadband service, but I was even more surprised when I discovered that my father's house just next door was eligible for the service.

    "It's very disappointing to see that when you have a service literally passing your doorstep you can't access it and I think it's not an uncommon story across rural communities whereby some households seem to be left out of this project."

    'Transformational'

    The Department for the Economy told BBC News NI that Project Stratum was a "transformational project".

    As a result, more than 99% of all premises in County Fermanagh and Omagh, in County Tyrone, will have access to Next Generation Access (NGA) broadband, capable of delivering speeds of 30Mbps or more.

    It said premises were considered as eligible for public intervention under Project Stratum if current or planned broadband services were not capable of delivering speeds of 30Mbps or higher.

    Information on connection speeds were provided by network operators and some premises were being kept "under review" to "test the robustness of claimed NGA broadband services".


    The review is being completed by independent specialist telecommunications consultants.

    If they are not capable of receiving such services, the department "will consider bringing these premises in plans for existing or future public intervention, subject to funding considerations".

    If anyone has previously benefited from public funding, such as a Better Broadband Voucher, they are also not eligible under state aid rules, it said.

    With regards to derelict properties, the department said such premises will be "de-scoped" during the deployment phase to ensure public funds are allocated appropriately.

    Fibrus, the company which has the contract to deliver Project Stratum, is currently installing fibre broadband cables across County Fermanagh.

    Premises not currently included in Project Stratum can be considered for connection during the network rollout if the infrastructure is passing close by and it is considered by the contractor to be commercially viable.

    But Mr O'Connor said Fibrus told him there was "no network infrastructure capacity" to connect his home, even though the nearest pole carrying the cable is just 25m away.

    "I've noticed that all the villages are being offered connection where they already had what's deemed to be broadband, yet they don't seem to have the infrastructure to connect me which seems a bit strange.

    "Project Stratum is costing the public £165m, that's a lot of money.

    "I think that it should be delivering the service to people who need it most."



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Thanks @heavydawson .

    The video of this meeting is here.

    Chairman Kieran O'Donnell asks NBP questions at 1:17:20

    https://media.heanet.ie/page/df3ebf5055e647229711747ab078d4ef


    The start of the catch-up had already been flagged at a previous meeting with NBI. 

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_and_communications/2021-09-15/3/

    P Hendrick

    As of 1 October we have contracted to increase the capacity of the Eir "make ready" work, which will really only start to show fruit towards the end of 2022 into 2023. 

    ....

    TJ Malone

    If we look at next year's plan, the 2022 plan, that would have seen us delivering somewhere in the region of 90,000 homes for that year. That was the original plan laid out for next year. Next year will see us pretty much back on track on that. We will deliver close to 7,000 premises a month, which gets in about 84,000 homes for next year. We will strive to surpass that, if possible, but that is what we are looking at. That gets us back into the run rate we had originally envisaged, and all the work we are doing at the moment gets us to a point where we start recovering from there. Next year gets us back on to the run rate. From the end of 2022 to 2023 onwards, we then start to eat into that gap and pull it back into the seven year plan. As Mr. Hendrick mentioned earlier, much of the work has been done. 



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Pique


    Booked in for installation on 1st Dec with KN Circet.

    Roscommon DA, N61 south.



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