Formula 1 round 19: Brazil GP

Rossi IRL · 18-11-2021 6:21pm

I think Verstappen should of got a penalty during the race as it looked a stonewaller even without the newer footage. If he doesn't get a penalty now and I don't think he will then he should be given a final warning. Anymore of that and it will be penalised.

He did similar in Spain and Imola where Hamilton was forced to avoid contact. I think that style of racing is dirty. Throwing it up the inside and forcing the other driver to avoid contact. Verstappen isn't the first and he won't be the last to race that way.

Lawlesz · 18-11-2021 8:09pm

No decision til tomorrow, this is beyond ridiculous. Not the first time we've had this kind of rubbish and f1 deserves better.

ctrl-alt-delete · 18-11-2021 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187819#Comment_118187819

Am I reading it right that the decision tomorrow is only to decide if there is a right to appeal?

Frank Bullitt · 18-11-2021 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188020#Comment_118188020

That was my understanding of it as well, todays meeting was to decide if anything new was presented.

Lawlesz · 18-11-2021 9:10pm

Yes, it's to decide if they can proceed with the appeal.

I'm not sure how I feel about the other drivers coming out and saying that... But for that to impact the decision the stewards are trying to reach today is a mess of the stewards own making.

It most likely should have been penalized at the time and it wasn't... Lewis said after the race it was a racing incident. It should have been left there.

Merc trawling it back up again isn't a good look for anybody, and the stewards dragging the decision out makes the FIA look like a bunch of bloody amateurs, not for the first time this season.

Dealing out penalties a week after the race is a joke and shouldn't be accepted by anybody.

Mikefitzs · 18-11-2021 9:28pm

Lewis should have called Max' bluff on the outside and dipped down the inside. Max would have gone wide and Lewis would have taken the lead at that point. Just as well for Mercedes that that didn't happen because RB would have brought Max in for new tyres and the end could have been very different. Best season since Rosberg v Hamilton.

Faugheen · 18-11-2021 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188206#Comment_118188206

Why should Hamilton have to do anything? He was clearly ahead going into the corner.

The only reason why there wasn't a crash there was because Hamilton backed out of the move in the first place.

How would you feel if I said Max should have backed out at Silverstone and let Hamilton through?

This notion that Hamilton needs to hold Max's hand all the time yet Max shouldn't do similar when the situation presents itself is genuinely baffling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188110#Comment_118188110

To be fair, Norris and Perez were punished for similar moves this season. I'd be really pissed off if I were them seeing Max getting away with it, only a few weeks after another kamikaze move caused a crash.

I think the drivers only want some consistency. If I were Norris I'd certainly be demanding why this isn't a penalty yet mine was. What did Max do that was acceptable yet mine wasn't?

Mikefitzs · 18-11-2021 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188670#Comment_118188670

Are you saying the leading driver has to back off and not defend their place? What sport does that happen? Max certainly didn't make it easy for Lewis. As for Silverstone Lewis tagged Max from behind, different scenario. We haven't seen the likes of it since Shumacher and Hill, it's a brilliant season. F1 racing is not for the faint hearted, never was, it got soft but now it's where it needs to be. Lewis went on to win anyway and I'm happy for him, I actually think he is the best driver of his generation, just as Schumacher was of his and Verstappen will be in the decade to come.

Faugheen · 19-11-2021 12:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188951#Comment_118188951

No, actually you're the one that said Hamilton should have 'called Max's bluff' which is another way of saying he should have backed out.

Hamilton was in the lead going into the corner, just like he was in the lead in Monza and people were trying to say Hamilton should have backed out of that one too.

Hamilton did tag Max from behind, and was rightly punished, but some here would believe that, at Monza, Max was right to barge into the side of Hamilton because 'racing'.

There's always a narrative of 'well Hamilton should have probably done x' whenever Max pushes the boundaries, but if the roles are reversed then the same excuses aren't offered for Max. There is a clear double-standard on this forum and people aren't even pretending anymore.

Max didn't even try to make the corner, or keep his car on the road in Brazil. The only reason Max has avoided a penalty for that is because Hamilton held his hand.

Mitch Connor · 19-11-2021 11:25am

I 100% think Max should have got a penalty - but it should have been at the time. IMO a 5 second penalty is what should have been given. If given in the race, both Bottas and Max know the situation and are racing to be in/out of 5 second range. If Bottas is sub-5 seconds to Max, great, Max finishes 3rd.

As it was, no penalty was handed out so Max only had to be concerned with being 1 second ahead, out of DRS range. So the race was raced on those grounds.

To give a 5 second penalty now artificially changes the result and is unfair to Max (even though he was at fault, imo, and should have been penalised at the time).

Is there precident for a 3 second penalty rather than 5 - or is 5 the minimum time penalty? Cause I wonder if they will give Max a penalty that doesn't impact the outcome of the last race but still sets a line for the races to come.

McFly85 · 19-11-2021 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189123#Comment_118189123

I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘Everyone needs to move because Max doesn’t care if there’s a collision’. There’s been 2 incidents this year where I think you could say he’s made a mistake. Last week and at Monza. Punished for one but not the other(yet).

Most other instances you hear about have been lap 1 stuff. People complain about Barcelona but it was really good, aggressive driving imo. Look at it again and he owned that corner. Hamilton had to move because if he doesn’t, he’ll be deemed at fault for the collision(also Hamilton was smart enough to know that he didn’t need to get into a lap 1 battle with the pace advantage they had that weekend)

Theres no point comparing any of the incidents with Max to Silverstone either. The high speed of the corner made it the most reckless incident this season imo, and completely unlike anything else.

Anyway, Jenson the voice of reason again. Should have been dealt with last week, wasn’t, Lewis won, move on.

McFly85 · 19-11-2021 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190327#Comment_118190327

Yeah if they decide a penalty is warranted I think it can’t be retroactive. If they decide they need to do something it would probably be a small grid penalty for this weekend.

Mitch Connor · 19-11-2021 1:35pm

decision is in and the appeal is thrown out (in that they won't hear it).

Guess this means no driver should ever move to the outside of the corner if defedning - take the inside into the corner and drive to the outside of the corner as you go, forcing the opponent to bail out, its the most viable and legal method of defence now. Doing so makes it virtually impossible for the opponent to overtake.

The guy on the inside can take all of the track, and off the track, without issue.

Gonna make for rubbish racing, but thats what all the Max fans want to see, hard racing that makes corner overtakes impossible. Will only see DRS overtakes on the staight now.

pjohnson · 19-11-2021 1:42pm

Good. In general I dont think any appeals to a race result should be heeded after at most 24 hours after the chequered flag.

Faugheen · 19-11-2021 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191064#Comment_118191064

I do agree with this in general but it sets a dangerous precedent now.

Hamilton won the race this time around so there shouldn’t have been any change to that result, but the problem will come in if either Hamilton or Max keep their position and win as a result.

The FIA needs to set guidelines about what is and what is not acceptable next season. I don’t see any difference of what Max did compared to Norris in Austria for example. It’s a complete mess.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191032#Comment_118191032

Well, they don't have to be that black and white about it. They can privately acknowledge that Max should have gotten a penalty and let the drivers know thst they will penalise it in future.

The issue is that it could change driver behaviour and they won't be able to overtake on the outside anymore because the defending driver will be able to run them off the track. So while it appears to be encouraging hard racing, it could actually be very anti-hard racing if left unchecked.

They don't need to admit publicly that they were wrong. They just need to fix it for the future.

Hijpo · 19-11-2021 3:36pm

Fantastic news.

Common sense prevails, well done stewards.

Formula 1 round 19: Brazil GP

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