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General British politics discussion thread

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    #3212
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,566 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159825#Comment_118159825

    Conservatives will be ok with this.

    It's 3 years out from a GE and BJ will be long gone by then. Loads of time for them to muddy the water, and blame Boris for setting a bad example. Johnson is their decoy now, all complaints right now about Brexit, Covid, Corruption, Climate and general political morals and ethics has the finger first, and correctly, pointed at him. They'll probably keep him there another 6 months or so to get past the likely winter/spring Covid jump and allow him to take the flack on all these issues, and then cut him loose and Sunak in who they will laud as evidence of diversity.



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    #3213
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,566 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Anyway remember the 'I wanna tell you, you should try it sometime' line from the Late Late show 20 odd years ago?

    Here's the UK version.

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1458103926373376003



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    #3214
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,566 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is the Laura Keunnsberg take on the story as it broke that I was referring to a few days ago and how it has since evolved.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1455863537394405379


    https://twitter.com/t0ggers/status/1459518977584021504

    A reminder that this is the BBC Chief Political Correspondent and one who was previously declared as a direct conduit for Dominic Cummings.



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    #3215
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This just gets weirder and weirder. Now we have Jacob Rees-Mogg in the line of fire and the Mail on Sunday are the ones leading on this:

    https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515

    Owen Patterson isn't a hill worth dying on. This is clearly endemic within the government, hence the desperate attempt to change the rules.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3216
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It looks like Johnson has confirmed that the eastern portion of HS2 is to be cancelled entirely.

    Untitled Image

    I find it baffling that the Conservative party has endured so much opprobrium over HS2 and is now just backing down just when something like HS2 could really help this country.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3217
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,734 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185544#Comment_118185544

    The Yorkshire section is really unpopular with the locals though. A mix of NIMBY stuff on the route and why is it NIMBY from everyone else. Also people think it's just a way to make their houses for accessable to Southerners who will drive up prices



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    #3218
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185697#Comment_118185697

    Sure but it was being built by neoliberal Tories for a reason. The North can't progress without better links to the South. This was in the works for several years with protests and the like and the governments just bore it until now. I don't see why they haven't cancelled it outright. Some locals seemed to have wanted better links as well.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3219
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,734 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185772#Comment_118185772

    I'm a bit baffled too. Why would you not want to build a high speed train network covering the country like other big EU states. Is it a money problem ?



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    #3220
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185952#Comment_118185952

    There's no money problem. It's politically quite toxic, particularly for the Tories. NIMBY's and rural Tories despise HS2. Budget hawks loathe the cost and neoliberals only believe in stripping the state. Back in the day, George Osborne talked much of a "Northern Powerhouse" and this is how you get it. The issue could be a vulnerability to political pressure. The Tories are in far from rude health at the moment.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3221
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    Christ I just realised HS2 has been a constant news piece since I first moved to the UK. It really feels like a never ending sh*tshow.



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    #3222
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186473#Comment_118186473

    At least HS2 is being built (I can't speak to whether it's necessary); I went to college in Dublin in '99, been living there on and off since then, permanently since '07 ... and the Dublin Metro has become a thing of fable. The latest "no, seriously, we're going to start in the next 5 years guys" has once again been pushed back - this time 'til the 2040s at the earliest.



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    #3223
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186473#Comment_118186473

    It took them a decade just to decide that Heathrow needs a new runway. What we clearly need are more infrastructure projects to enhance our ability to work from home and ease congestion in cities. I'd have completely cancelled HS2 at this stage.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3224
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186521#Comment_118186521

    HS2 is desperately needed. Though when the Greens are (idiotically) coming out against it you know the political situation around it is difficult.



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    #3225
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186564#Comment_118186564

    It's what really turns me off the Greens. When I lived in Brighton, it was firmly under their control. They ran the council and rubbish piled up on the streets due to bin worker strikes. They made residents wait a year to get parking permits and they'd veto any new housing development. In the manifestoes, they'd talk big about infrastructure spending, fair union representation and the need to build more housing. Can't have these things both ways.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3226
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186607#Comment_118186607

    They put out a statement bemoaning the cancellation of the northern routes while simultaneously re-emphasizing their opposition to HS2 in general. It was a convoluted mess.



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    #3227
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, it isn't easy being Green.

    The problem with green issues, it is the perfect being the enemy of the good. And even within the Green fraternity, they can never agree on the perfect or even the good.

    Recycling sounds good but not consuming in the first place is better, but people put a high value on consumption - even if most of it is just cheap tat. Air travel is not green, but holidays in the sun require it and people love holidays in the sun. Electric vehicles are better than diesels, but the car you have now is greener than a new one - and public transport, cycling, and walking is even greener.

    And so on - Green cannot be populist.



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    #3228
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186986#Comment_118186986

    Actually being green? No, of course not. Being green to posture politically? Absolutely. You can easily adopt mutually exclusive policies for votes and your supporters will never complain about it.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #3229
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    And being in Gov as a minority party that is Green is not a winning formula. The greener you are, the more the main parties block you, and the less you get your policies through, the more your support base evaporates.

    Not a winning formula in any way no matter how genuine the Green party is.



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    #3230
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ken Clarke has some strong words about Johnson's leadership...

    “Boris is showing signs of being extremely impatient in regard to the constitutional constraints upon him. He gets angry if the courts or parliament try to interfere. As the elected prime minister, he thinks he should not be impeded in these ways. We are now getting dangerously close to the “elected dictatorship” that Lord Hailsham, the former Lord Chancellor, warned us about half a century ago. He quite rightly identified it as the underlying risk of a totally unwritten constitution.

    “Fortunately our Supreme Court has been prepared to step in and defend some basic constitutional principles. That enraged the government which threatened to take away the court’s power, and tried to get through a bill that allowed them to break international and domestic law so far as the Brexit deal with the EU is concerned.”

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/tim-walker-interviews-ken-clarke/




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    #3231
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,334 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    No linkdumps.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on


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    #3232
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,393 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137562#Comment_118137562

    The Owen Patterson North Shropshire by election has a date now, December 16th. Conservatives defending 23K majority (or 63% vote share if you prefer) so would normally be a win. Though the bookies odds of 1/3 Con, 5/2 Lib, 20/1 Labour suggest that it's not quite a done deal yet. Slightly interesting that Lib are such clear second favourites, as Labour was way ahead of them last time.

    By contrast Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire's Essex constituency) on December 2nd is looking like a non-event with the Tories 1/16 to hold. Southend (Sir David Amees) doesn't have a date yet, but it seems Labour and LibDem won't contest it out of respect.

    2021 North Shropshire by-election - Wikipedia



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    #3233
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,334 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190400#Comment_118190400

    By contrast Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire's Essex constituency)

    Hadn't heard he died, wow that's bad one...



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    #3234
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190400#Comment_118190400

    Odds in Patersons vacated seat obviously based on the gains lib dems made there at last local elections, would suggest they are a clear second best there. Shropshire with its well above average age demographic wouldn't appear likely ground for a lib dem surge but then we all remember what happened in amersham and chesham so hard to rule anything out. Even a narrow conservative victory wouldn't bring much cheer for Johnson.



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    #3235
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,734 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190400#Comment_118190400

    Will be interesting to see if anti Patterson feelings brings out voters that usually wouldn't bother in a safe seat.

    Even if it is held it's important for the optics to chop that vote share down



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    #3236
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190857#Comment_118190857

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives only hold on due to split opposition vote. Incumbent parties usually get a hammering when the MP does a runner.



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    #3237
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190400#Comment_118190400

    Bizarre to think they wont contest the Amess election 'out of respect'.

    Of course what happened to the man was a tragedy, a scandal, etc. But to let the Tories a free run at it? Who will contest it for the Tories?

    Maybe it is a safe seat anyway though, which would make the 'respect' angle more understandable.



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    #3238
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,393 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191925#Comment_118191925

    The Tories and Lib Dems did the same step-a-side for the 2016 Jo Cox by-election in Batley & Spen (which wouldn't have been a safe seat), so maybe its just standard policy in the UK?

    2016 Batley and Spen by-election - Wikipedia



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    #3239
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,734 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192000#Comment_118192000

    Ya that seems to be the case.

    Also I reckon after an incident like this even a usually unsafe seat would be pretty solid.

    In Ireland the candidate standing to replace the dead politician often gets a sympathy vote even for natural deaths



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    #3240
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191925#Comment_118191925

    In football a team will often kick the ball to the side for a throw in if one of their players is injured. And usually the other team will throw it back to them once the player is seen to.

    In general the main parties don't contest the seat of the Speaker either. But Farage did. And finished behind the Speaker. And Flipper the Dolphin.



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    #3241
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Amess was an MP who did not have enemies on either side.

    Farage would finish behind Flipper the Dolphin, and Lord Bucket Head in any contest.



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