Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

That is true for natural immunity to an extent, but vaccines will greatly reduce your risk of serious illness or even death. The same cannot be said for natural immunity.

Precisely this, sometimes natural immunity will be better, sometimes worse, depending on viral load and symptoms, the vaccines just give a consistent high response to everyone.

I'd also note that the deactivated virus vaccines (Sinopharm) has lower efficacy and protection than the spike specific vaccines, likely due to lower levels of antibodies after reaction to the vaccine. I'd also wonder if the other bits of the virus are more mutable so by missing the higher response to the spike, the memory of other proteins doesn't count as much against other variants (I'm sure there's a paper on it somewhere).

We sure do, when a virus knows what a €9 meal is then you know we are living in an age of wonders!

Good article in IT. It may be the case that the government has overplayed the blame game and hopefully more media outlets will call them out on it.

Lockdown is in the air, and I think a lot of people sense that. The only thing is that this method of dealing with the virus is like perpetual cycle of drinking whiskey to cure hangover that was caused by the very same thing the day before. Provides only a short term solution for a long term problem.

Similarly lockdown. Sure it buys us time but we haven’t utilised the time lockdowns bought us thus far and I cannot see how that is going to change. The strategy in 2020 was to eradicate the virus as much as it was possible in a wait for the vaccine. 2021 is about vaccinating our way out of it and we can see how well that is working. Sure these strategies made look Ireland look good in “covid olympics” and deferred a good few deaths however inevitable they are btw. But what is the fcuking plan - is the question I have for all these so called experts and politicians. And I mean a plan, not a silver bullet and hope that it will do the trick. It is time they confront the brutal truth as people deserve answers.

Infection-acquired (natural) immunity is much more robust than the current available vaccines. Likely because when you are infected, your body is exposed to the whole virus and therefore to all the proteins that it comprises. You make antibodies and T- and B-cell memory to multiple proteins, and that is much more likely to be (according to theory and to data that exists on reinfection) a neutralising immunity—and to be more "variant-proof". Neutralising immunity is the only way you tackle an airborne virus with an incubation period of up to 20 days (average 5-6), and the current, single-protein-targeting vaccines aren't cutting it.

My feeling is that the Valneva vaccines in the pipeline (whole virus vaccines using more established tech) will make a big difference for that reason, and so will a nasal vaccine if they manage to get one out, because that will reduce viral load in the bits that matter for transmission (lungs and nose).

Antiviral drugs are also coming down the pipeline, and the EMA recommended authorisation of two different monoclonal antibody treatments a week ago, which I believe are currently being reviewed by the government.

So I think there's reason to be optimistic, but obviously it's rampant at the moment so people who are vulnerable should be taking personal responsibility for their own health. And the government should be giving people better advice. It seems like people are still thinking that washing their hands and wearing masks will keep them safe, when they'd be better off opening a couple of windows for a minute every half hour and avoiding stagnant indoor air.

Ralphy if your nose starts bleeding you're either picking it to much or not enough!

Classic Chief Wiggum line 😁

It’s also worth pointing out though that the U.K. has a far higher population density than we do, has innumerably greater ties and transport links to the rest of the world, and has a greater array of ethnicities — some of which have been disproportionately affected by Covid (the BAME communities most particularly). They literally have over twice the population of Ireland squeezed into the Greater London area. I just don’t think a straight comparison of their ICU capacity versus ours is the basis for an argument that we cannot look to emulate the policy they are following (with the full appreciation that they may yet start to see a greater spike over Christmas, as I imagine every European country will).

But I also need to stress that I’m not even arguing that we should have pushed to emulate the UK right now, but rather stuck with what we had from 22 October — because the current new measures only lead us on an inexorable path to more measures, until we inevitably move towards heavy restrictions, then we all clap and applaud the stabilisation of numbers, then the measures eventually break and we see a spike again. Unless we lock down until February with exemplary levels of compliance, the Christmas spike is inevitable. And all we will have to show for it is picking the can up again in February (and it will still be cold then) and enduring the wave — at which point we will see whether this government will finally drop the moral absolutism and do what must be done, or they simply continue the ethically bulletproof but reality-devoid policy of the abundance of caution.

But look, I appreciate your views on this and we share common ground in believing that the government was too cautious this year. But now we need mainstream politicians to start admitting this (because right now the unfortunate fact is that the fringe right eccentric politicians are the only ones voicing it publicly) and to accept that at some point the public health advice of NPHET (which naturally and understandably will always be cautious) needs to be counterbalanced with realistic wider public policy — so that at the very least we don’t come to the 2022 wave and run straight back for the untouchable moral sanctity of unsustainable caution.

because the death from covid has become an unacceptable way to leave this world, much more so than any other ways (cancer etc.) living with covid is not an option. Living with covid means prioritising other more important diseases and patients who suffer from them. But no covid is the only fcuking thing that matters in this country. That is not living with covid, that is being paralysed by inability to deal with it.

NPHETs new recommendations should be out next Thursday

We all know where its heading. Drink up lads this weekend could be the last

Yep that was a good laugh

My motto every weekend, even before covid. There's no certainties in this world PTH2009!

Bill Gates says stop eating meat and hey presto Claire Byrne is eating a mealworm burger on the telly! 😉