Graham Dwyer - latest

Pete_Cavan · 18-11-2021 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186845#Comment_118186845

I just think that if fair application of one law shouldn't facilitate avoiding prosecution for breaking another law, particularly one as serious as murder. If the mobile phone data thing gets Dwyer off, the laws as they are may have been applied but justice will not have been served.

KaneToad · 18-11-2021 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187418#Comment_118187418

But "justice" can't be defined. The application of the law can be.

ohnonotgmail · 18-11-2021 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187418#Comment_118187418

if the law is not applied fairly to all then justice has not been served. That I think Dwyer should be strung up by the testicles with piano wire doesn't change that

freshpopcorn · 18-11-2021 6:57pm

I'm thick now but if Graham Dwyer can use this. Could Joe O'Reilly do similar?

maestroamado · 18-11-2021 7:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187098#Comment_118187098

Watch the media for the next few days... i could not remember exact detail but i expect others have recorded...

19-11-2021 12:15am

The one thing I'd love to know is where is Graham O'Dwyer getting the money to bring a case all the way to the EU? RTÉ was clear that it is he who is taking the case (https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/1118/1261625-eu-court-dwyer/). I was gobsmacked listening to this today.

As a man going through an obscenely expensive legal process/heist to be treated equally in Irish law - for instance, if it's all about the kids, why does the mother get to keep the house, rather than a 4/3/3/4 split of the seven week nights between each parent that exist in other European countries? - how can he get the enormous sums it must take to bring this case?

I would give my right arm to be able to finance a case against the Irish state for the blatant discrimination of its laws against me because of something I have no control over (my sex). As it is, it will be years before I have the loan for this basic fight paid off. Yet this individual can go all the way to the EU with this case.

19-11-2021 12:19am

Big argument for the EU to have stayed a predominately economic and trade union a la the EEC when looking at the shenanigans in the european courts

Yurt2 · 19-11-2021 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189099#Comment_118189099

This was referred to Europe by the Supreme Court, not as a challenge by Dwyer's legal team. In fact the French and German judicial authorities are party to the referral as they have been grappling with similar legal issues around their own data retention regime.

19-11-2021 1:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189134#Comment_118189134

Exactly, O Dwyer won his case in the high court here, the state has appealed that ruling to the Supreme court. Because it involves European law, the Supreme court asked certain questions of the European court, they have answered them. It's now up to the Supreme court to make their judgement.

if they go with what the European court says, which they will, then it's likely O Dwyer will have a retrial, without the phone evidence. Doesn't look good for a conviction without it.

Seth Brundle · 19-11-2021 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189115#Comment_118189115

And have the state trample all over many of the rights that you currently have?

The risks of using this data in the Dwyer trial were known at the time. It has nothing to do with the EU or ECJ. The Irish (and other states) felt they could ride roughshod over people's rights in order to win a case knowing full well that it could eventually fall through.

sportsfan90 · 19-11-2021 9:05am

If it does go to a retrial, how on earth would he get a fair trial? They'd be doing well to find 12 jurors not familiar with the case.

Everyone knows he did it, so how could the jury simply pretend they don't know about the texts and phone data during their deliberations?

The Mighty Quinn · 19-11-2021 9:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189672#Comment_118189672

This was exactly my first thought, where are you going to find 12 people who are unaware of Ireland's most infamous murder case ever, who are completely unaware of the mobile phone details of the trial, unless you find a jury of people who were 12-15 at the time who would now be young adults and quite possibly unfamiliar with the case.

maestroamado · 19-11-2021 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189099#Comment_118189099

The legal aid in this country is a joke as anyone with a good barrister can keep an appeal alive to supreme court for free... Once tjhe legal profession getting paid it will run... The EU is doing what it is there for but its a pity they couldn't look at the botched Legal system in this country...

I read a few days ago where the senior Garda connected to drugs in Dublin has being granted legal aid... the same happened with some of the bankers and others in the past... The financial criteria for legal aid must be very high...

19-11-2021 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189818#Comment_118189818

he hasn't brought any case to europe, so it's not costing him or his legal aid anything!

maestroamado · 19-11-2021 12:41pm

Who paid for to get to supreme court... i doubt if the EU covered that gig but it may be free... none of these professionals time including judges is cheap...

maestroamado · 19-11-2021 12:41pm

19-11-2021 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190714#Comment_118190714

The state appealed to the Supreme court

maestroamado · 19-11-2021 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190764#Comment_118190764

The state convicted him... i am of the understanding that his legal team challenged the conviction... am i simply wrong...

ohnonotgmail · 19-11-2021 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190807#Comment_118190807

his legal team did challenge the conviction. when it went to the Supreme Court they decided that they needed the european court to decide on matters related to european law. Dwyers team didn't make that decision.

tara73 · 19-11-2021 2:07pm

I ask myself, this circumstance, the mobile phone data being out of the 'legal use period', was known at the time of the court case and his conviction. why did the prosecutors ignored this fact and convicted him, nevertheless, on illegal evidence?

during the trial, they became a clear picture of this guy, his character and attitude and it must have been pretty clear, especially for the people from the law profession, that this guy will not let this slip and will do everything to bring his 'wrong' (don't get me wrong, I feel sick thinking about this guy and his perverted mind, just speaking here from the legal perspective) conviction to the courts again, whatever it needs and however long it takes.

so why didn't they built a case with sufficient evidence against him without the phone data at that time? Seems like they will have to do it someday in the not so long future and this is not only costing extroardinary tax payers money again, not to speak from the pain and hassle for the relatives on both sides and as mentioned finding a 'new', unbiased jury.

Or are there any other (unspoken) possibilities where people who don't work in the law profession like most here are unaware of? Possibilities like delaying it with no end? Can't really imagine that..

Fandymo · 19-11-2021 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191182#Comment_118191182

There was no evidence to convict him without the mobile data. He'll walk because the prosecutor thought the law didn't apply to him.

BattleCorp1 · 19-11-2021 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190807#Comment_118190807

Dywer's legal team appealed the phone data to the High Court and won. That's as far as Dwyer's legal team have taken it. The State weren't happy with the high court decision and they then appealed it to the Supreme Court who in turn passed it on to the EU to rule on.

Yurt2 · 19-11-2021 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191182#Comment_118191182

The Department of Justice was well alerted that the law was deficient at draft stage. Legal experts in the area submitted such opinions at various stages before it formally made it's way through the Oireachtas. It was entirely foreseeable and we're left with a rather ugly situation where someone we know to be a murderer will in all probability walk.

There was enough circumstantial evidence around Dwyer to know that he was the man (good old-fashioned detective work led AGS to him), but the case was constructed overwhelmingly around the phone data. A bit of patience and further old-school detective work may have led to prosecution not so reliant on the data - but then again I'm not a Garda.

BattleCorp1 · 19-11-2021 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191570#Comment_118191570

I think he will walk too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for him but I was surprised that he was convicted given that the State couldn't even prove a cause of death in the case.

monkeybutter · 19-11-2021 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191182#Comment_118191182

A strange post

There may have been a question mark over the phone evidence but it was admitted into the case, so this is after the fact

Why not use all the evidence, which was legal at the time.

The mobile location data is very strong. It takes away any doubts that the phone may not have been his. This is the evidence in question

The other data found on the phones is not in question.

There is still a strong evidence on the phones that they did belong to him and they may have traced the purchase back also, date of birth of chidren, etc, arranging meetings, then turning up at the apt

There is also no doubt he was having a relationship with her, given cctv evidence and dna evidence

So the case could still stand, I'm not sure how to get a second trial out of something like this though, that is the real problem