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Austria hits panic button.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The decisions aren't made on that basis.

    We don't condemn all alcoholics to death by refusing them transplants (which is what you'd be doing if you push them down the list each time their name comes up).

    Their families would sue for medical malpractice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Your all drama.

    The Hospitals are full, when a bed comes available and there are a number of covid patients needing it all things being equal the vaccinated person should get it over the unvaccinated.


    Your drama about denying treatment is not what anyone is saying, its prioritising the limited resources correctly.


    If someone is willing to make the choice to take no precautions to protect themselves, (which i dont object to) then they should be waiting in line behind the person who did take the obvious and very free vaccination to protect themselves.


    The other side of this is that people who knowingly went unvaccinated are taking the limited medical capacity needlessly away from people who need it and did all they could.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,663 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    They're talking about random spot checks I believe. Think I saw one here (Berlin) earlier todayand I'm not even sure there's been word of any lockdown.

    The other option is to get everyone who isn't vaccinated to wear a badge of some sort... Something like a yellow star...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    It isn't a factor. What you're talking about is a kind of rough justice - "the person who has behaved better deserves the bed".

    The sicker more needful person gets the bed and made-up "all things being equal" doppleganger scenarios don't come into it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    But that is EXACTLY what happens.

    People get bumped and kicked off transplant lists all the time for not meeting the medical requirements - Weight-loss , Giving up smoking , drinking etc.

    They decision is made based on who will benefit the most from the transplant and which recipient has the highest chance of successful recovery.

    An actively drinking alcoholic fails both of those criteria for a kidney for example and as such would simply not qualify for a transplant from the list - Different for a familial donor , but getting an organ from the public list you will absolutely 100% be removed from it if your lifestyle means that that organ is likely to go to waste because you are still drinking/smoking/overweight etc.

    I don't think we ever got there thankfully , but certainly in Italy and other places when they were running out of ventilators doctors were having to decide who got the ventilator and who didn't - They based that on likelihood of long term survival so they sadly had to allow some people to die because they did not have the resources.

    If a similar set of circumstances were to arise again, I'd have no real issue with vaccination status being used as one of the decision making criteria.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Mandating it for Feb 2022 won't really have much of an impact for the winter surge. I've a feeling as you say, they will see an uptick in people getting vaccinated and drop or push that date further ahead into the future.

    The UK are doing similar with mandatory vaccinations for NHS staff, but only from next April.

    Probably make more of an impact going the US route and paying or having lottos for people getting vaccinated. Carrot before the stick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Christ above, I really hope you don't believe the very words you put up here. Doesn't get much more dramatic than this.

    We've been through 4 lockdowns now where the numbers have been considered "out of control" a "public health crisis"! And yet less than 10% of the population have contracted the virus (which I believe to be an overestimation given how quick they were blame the virus on everything). And many of whom never even got any symptoms. No disrespect to those or the families of those who have died, but the severity/seriousness of the virus has been vastly exaggerated and the dogs in the street could tell you that the problems stem from how poor your health system is. The virus is like the spot light for awful health systems in the world.

    Yet again, the government are upping the rhetoric on the "antivaxrs". They are looking at austria and drooling at how they created a boogeyman out of our local "anti-vaxr". Lockdowns for the unvaccinated are just around the corner here too and in future it will be lockdowns for whoever hasn't their covid cert up to date regardless of if you recieved the initial dose or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Certainly clutching at straws these Austrians.

    A month ago it was get a free shag in a brothel if you get vaxed

    5 days ago it was full lockdown only for the unvaxed

    Today is lockdown the whole country and in February forced vaccinations for the unvaxed.


    Got to wonder what they will come up with next week. 🤦‍♂️

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,680 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If definitely does.

    Its simply with limited resources you want the best outcomes from them.

    Many of us will have been in these situation. I'm glad you haven't.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    No disrespect to those or the families of those who have died, but the severity/seriousness of the virus has been vastly exaggerated and the dogs in the street could tell you that the problems stem from how poor your health system is.

    Had we not had the lockdowns, where would we be now? How many more would have died and what in your view would have been acceptable?

    Part of the scientific route out of this is the use of vaccines. The "rhetoric on the antivaxrs" is completely justified given that their choices are based on misinformation, paranoia and selfishness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    What's the story with Sebastian Kurz? I see he had to resign on some corruption charge a month ago. Were any of these measures introduced under his watch?



  • Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Are you one of those types who think one death is too many therefore lockdowns, no matter how severe, are justified? Do you think all the lockdown related suicides are justified? Do you think death and the myriad of other shocking side effects of the vaccine are justified?

    A lockdown on the unvaccinated would create chaos. You do realise that a lockdown on the unvaccinated would harm you just as much? There would be spot checks by gardai everywhere you go. A real sick life that you feel is justified despite us having no evidence to suggest it would save lives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    That a very naive answer.


    Transplant patients are prioritised on a number of factors, as are all medical decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Ha! How naive he was to think this. He'll regret selling his body for vaccine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭eggy81


    So many people have lost the complete run of themselves with this dose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    So how exactly would a mandate work?

    I'm assuming they don't kick in your door at 2am, tie you down and force it into your arm? 😂

    Or do they just weld you into your home, and post police outside so you're a prisoner?

    And what about eating or other essential stuff? Will you have a personal servant to get you stuff 24/7?

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    I'm just trying to imagine unvaxxed people running through the streets of Vienna, trying to evade the authorities.

    With crack teams of snipers shooting them with those tranquilizer rifles they use to take down animals in the wild, only with vaccine darts instead. 😋

    We're moving into a dystopian future!

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    From my reading of it, for the unvaccinated lockdown, seems to work like a normal lockdown mandate. Obviously like any lockdown, it's difficult to fully enforce, but if caught in a spot-check, people who can't produce proof of vaccination can be fined, also not allowed into certain venues, restaurants, etc. (Germany and other countries also seem to be cracking down on the unvaccinated)

    For the mandatory requirement of vaccination, no idea yet, some other countries like Indonesia and Turkmenistan are also going to be bringing it in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    You're just describing triage. That happens all the time, but I can't see how vaccination status would have any bearing on it. If someone is presenting for at an A&E/ED and they have COVID, it makes little difference to their prognosis whether they were vaccinated or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    If people want to 'other' themselves, there's not much you can do about it, is there? I guess we shouldn't 'other' drink drivers by trying to keep them off our roads? Or 'other' criminals by putting them in jail? Jesus H Christ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Lol, you couldn't make it up

    "The Austrian decision to lock down unvaccinated people and make vaccinations mandatory from 1 February 2022 has caused anger in some quarters.

    Reuters writes that pushback to the new rules has been led by the far-right Freedom party, whose leader Herbert Kickl posted a picture on Facebook with the inscription: “As of today Austria is a dictatorship.”

    The party is planning a protest on Saturday, but Kickl cannot attend because he has tested positive for Covid.

    Roughly two-thirds of those eligible in Austria are fully vaccinated, one of the lowest rates in western Europe. Its infections are among the highest in Europe, with a seven-day incidence of 991 per 100,000 people.

    “We have not succeeded in convincing enough people to get vaccinated,” Austria’s chancellor, Alexander Schallenberg, told a news conference, saying the lockdown would start on Monday. “It hurts that such measures still have to be taken.”"




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Even to this day if everyone stayed at home for 14 days no more covid. Wuhan did this, anyone out was dragged and kicked off the street.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    You know full well that he is referring to the socialist dreamland that you would love to live in. Halt! Papiere bitte! Schnell, schnell!

    Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide I suppose?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I'd love to know how such a bizarre mentality like this could brew up in anyone's head. Facebook and other such cancerous platforms have a lot to answer for.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bit melodramatic, no?

    will be just like they were doing it already. there has been plenty of news footage over the last week. Spot checks by police on the street and at entrances to hospitality etc. And if you’ve no cert and you’re out for a non essential reason, then a fine or worse, presumably on an escalating scale. Plus you won’t be able to get in anywhere, or to travel, so life would be pretty miserable. And fake certs would, I imagine, be met with pretty harsh penalties



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    So how do you fine people, if you've told them they can't work without a vaxx? And will their economy implode as a result?

    Remember, this is currently about 35% of the Austrian population.

    The real question, is will this even work? Ireland has something like 95% vaccinated, and we've had reasonably strict lockdowns. Yet it's not going away.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    You're the flat earther, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

    Apologies if I don't debate politics with someone who thinks the world is flat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,906 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This is not correct (though transplants are a far cry from COVID vaccines). Age is also a discriminating factor for transplants.

    This is correct.

    You're spinning out a bit, best to rein it in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    I'd imagine quite a few all over Europe are watching Ireland with it's high vaccination rates and going through the same madness.

    A lot will be wondering what is the point



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Are they also going to rip kids out of their parents hands and inject them against their will? I am all for vaccines but obligating people to take it is a step too far.


    If they hadn't done such a shyte job educating people on the need for the vaccine they wouldn't be in this situation. Policies like this have potential for major public disorder and armed insurgency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The parents will likely be held responsible. A bit like wearing the seat-belts in the car type of thing. I'm sure it will also be 18+ or 15+. Ultimately I think it's a bit of a bluff just get the people to vaccinate. Seeing reports of long lines outside vaccination centers all over Austria so either way it's working

    Yup, perhaps they could have done more to educate the public, but people are very good at being complacent, lazy or "doing their own research" (i.e. reading disinfo), so I wouldn't lump all the blame on the government



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    The reports I read stated something different. It will be similar to the US, take the jab or lose your job.

    Could be disastrous if a decent chunk of that 35% dig their heels in.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Harika


    If you can work from home you are lucky, if you cannot pay and cannot take a job that you could take no unemployment benefits. Its not painless to take a stand. So people will rush to get vaccinated, as they did when restrictions were first tightened. Some will be in disbelief until it kicks in and some will cry Nazi Nazi while screaming against any asylum seeker. lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Unvaccinated people are allowed essential travel for e.g work or food shopping

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59283128



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    That's the latest lockdown measures Dohnjoe. Apparently they are going in much harder from the middle of feb next year, with the vax mandate. It will be much stricter than these latest measures.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I'd wager 90+% of the pop will be vaccinated by then easily and I wouldn't be surprised if they didnt follow through



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Harika



    Austrians discovered the option to get vaccinated. You wonder what pushed them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    What's the crime in not being vaccinated for covid? Only people infected with covid can spread it, vaccinated or not. unvaccinated does not mean infected. or are we just labeling people criminals based on "crimes" they can potentially commit? In that case all of us are criminals then. Are we living in Minority Report now? Seems like it. Any end date, or is it a permanent state of emergency and forced vaccinations every 5 or 6 months?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Absolutely horrifying to hear that today from Austria but not surprising.

    We are not heading for dark times lads, we are already here.

    Anybody who believes that even with 100% vaccinated in any country maybe even the world will end this **** is dreaming. Governments have Absolutely lost the run of themselves and the power they are having without challenge is terrifying. Look at what's going on in Australia and Austria.

    Every single thing governments get involved in gets turned to Absolutel **** and there's a long a history of it.

    Only for covid being rammed into our heads everyday for nearly 2 years would you even no there was a virus out there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway




  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Unless you were a complete moron...yes.

    This is like global warming. The people with brains need to combat the stupidity and sabotage of those without or we all pay. You have no idea of the apocalyptic scenes in hospitals that have gone on over the last 18 months, people dying in absolute misery, too many bodies to bury in NEW YORK, never mind places with less adequate hospital services (e.g. here). Do you want it to rip through the population, taking many people (largely unvaccinated morons, admittedly) with it?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Be grateful that you haven't encountered the virus. Had you lost someone to it or had to remotely watch someone die alone you'd think differently rather than think like... well I don't want to be banned here!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Ok then.

    2020 called, it wants its hysteria back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Good article here from the director of Big Brother Watch (the archive link works even though it looks weird). Shocking the amount of people cheering this segregation on. You should be ashamed of yourselves.



    The result is that millions of healthy people, who happen to be disproportionately working class or from minority ethnic groups – many of whom will have immunity to Covid anyway from having contracted the virus – are being turned into a new European sub-class, denied leisure, free movement, and social and economic opportunities.

    As Europeans are thrust into this new two-tier society, the human rights balance is supposedly this: that unvaccinated people pose a health risk to others, and so it is proportionate to take away their liberties to protect public health. Yet this assertion lacks a logical or scientific evidence base.

    Data from around the world – including Israel and the UK, where the overwhelming majority of the adult population is at least double-vaccinated – shows that the vaccines do not provide perfect protection against infection, even if they do significantly reduce the risk of death and hospitalisation.

    Most disturbingly, there does not appear to be even an air of regret among those cheerleading vaccine segregation. It is as though they are relishing the opportunity to police the unvaccinated, to treat the dissenters as diseased, and to make this unwanted component of society invisible.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Yeah, look at these hysterical medics. There's no way this could happen again, right?



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