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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    And I would love to be a millionaire. Except Argentina have shown nothing in 2021 to make us think they will be able to catch Ireland on the hop and if anything are more likely to lose more heavily than the handicap suggests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭terrarev


    I'm another one who don't particularly see the benefit of big changes going into this game.

    I know people are desparate to blood new players but people seem to be forgetting how new to test rugby a lot of these players are. They need experience too.

    Porter is brand new to test rugby as a loose head. Ronan Kelleher is just now becoming a starter, Caelan Dorris has played very little test rugby. We're all worried about how robust Sexton is going to be so it does Joey Carbery no favours to get his tests in a second team. The entire back three are very new to test rugby. The NZ game was Keenan's first test in front of a full house.

    On the bench there are 4 very inexperienced players.

    I'd have liked to see Coombes and Larmour instead of POM and Earls but given the inexperience of the other replacements I can see why they are there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Been thinking a bit about squad development and all the accusations of being conservative (which I never agreed with even before the Japan game) but we've actually learned quite a lot from this series:

    • Kelleher and Doris are definitely international standard, this isn't a huge surprise but they've gone and announced themselves on a big stage
    • Porter is now our nailed on #1 and we've one of the best front rows in the world, similarly Conan is now our nailed on #8
    • JGP is pretty much without a doubt the best SH for our current playstyle and is well up to this level
    • James Lowe redeemed himself and is an absolute weapon
    • Remains to be seen how he plays but Balacoune has a chance to make himself a live option on the wing, up to him now to take it
    • Keenan looks like he'll be the Ireland 15 for a long long time to come

    Beyond that we know Ringrose is back to himself, Aki is playing really well, we've 3 top quality second rows. Our pack is completely refreshed from 2020. The only 3 players who you'd consider first choice then and now are Furlong, Ryan and VdF (and I think VdF might be arguable, both then and now).

    For me the biggest missed opportunity has been Coombes and Casey. It's a pity the former won't get any minutes at all, I know he was ill for the first two games but still. I hope Casey gets a good run on Sunday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,073 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm surprised enough that Furlong is starting, but I can understand why too. I advocated only 7 or 8 changes in the 23 and Farrell has done that. The only other change I would've loved to see is Coombes on the bench at least. But its a long season ahead, lets see how everyone goes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    The starting XV is obviously experienced, but let's not forget Porter is relatively new at LH, Doris doesn't have many caps, Carbery is in at 10 and Baloucoune is winning only his 2nd cap, so there is plenty of change.

    Then you have Sheahen, O'Toole, Casey and Byrne on the bench.

    So to be fair I think there is plenty of development in this squad taking place.

    If it were me, I'd have had either Baird or Coombes on the bench (not both though as you need some experienxed protection in either Beirne or O'Mahony), and I'd have probably stuck Zebo in at 15, just because Keenan is miles ahead of everyone else at full back and we need another option so that we dont become as reliant on Keenan as we have become on Sexton.

    Overall, a decent mix, and more than good enough to win.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Some people would love 15 new players starting in the team, then Ireland lose and it would be up roar. Can't please everyone



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah there are a good few players now that have fairly cemented themselves and you've covered them over in that list. You would think Beirne probably feels the most hard done by, POM definitely not quite first choice anymore either. Similarly the likes of Kilcoyne have been impacted by Porter's shift back to loosehead.

    Bealham actually is another one that has done his reputation no harm, not convinced by his scrummaging but an incredibly mobile tighthead and a terrific option of the bench, he's had an excellent November.

    Looking at Argentina's recent results, they hammered Italy and gave France a close game in Paris so not to be taken lightly. They stuffed Wales over the Summer also albeit with a strong Welsh contingent away at the Lions. They had a tri nations to forget, but have a bit of form coming into this weekend.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    First time Henshaw and Ringrose played together for Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Re Coombes, I’ve heard rumours online that the virus he had for a couple of weeks cost him a few pounds. He’s probably still not recovered enough for a big battle vs Argentina.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    The great thing about a young exiting winger getting a chance now, is that you know he'll actually get the ball in his hands in a bit of space and won't be solely chasing box kicks and hitting rucks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    First time this November maybe..

    Im pretty sure the have partnered more times than any other midfield partnership this year and maybe over the past 5 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    True but he hardly saw the ball for the 3 years post 2018.

    He scored 11 tries in his first 9 caps and then only scored 8 in his next 26.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Only had to go far back as Scotland in this year's six nations to see them together



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    He barely scored for Ulster either think it was something like 1/2 tries in a year



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Thats questionable based on their performances in 2021.


    And what, Ireland are slouches? Atleast Ireland actually have a fly half at 10.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    It seems abit weird how you highlight and possibly exadurate the negative side of Ireland’s selection at 10 but then disregard the fact Argentine have a 15 in that position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Wronf thread



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    What's the opinion based on though? Because everything we've seen this year from both sides plus the history of this fixture points to a comfortable Irish win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Well, tbh, I reference our half backs. I don't have much confidence in either. Argentina are not world beaters! But, they're going to be physical and give us a good run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Every team is physical, what exactly do Argentina have going for them that will point to them testing Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I don't know! They won't test Ireland! We're just so good! We shouldn't even show up! This child's play!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Im just seeing a trend recently from the Japan & NZL games where we seemed to talk up our opposition to the highest of heights and talk down Ireland and then when Ireland go out and demolish the opposition the same people seem to back track and say Japan are sh*t and NZL are tired and we should have been confident of winning anyway...Predicting Argentina to make this a close game when there is no evidence of them being capable of doing that based on what we've seen from Ireland & Argentina so far in 2021 seems to be following the same trend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It's almost like respecting the opposition is a good thing.

    If we're off our game and Argentina play to their best, they can absolutely turn us over. How is being mindful of that a bad thing?

    Now, if we're on it, we should win handily. And we should do. But we should also respect them because they're a good team.

    Need I remind people what happened the last time we underestimated Argentina?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    There's respecting the opposition and then there is being realistic.

    We should respect the opposition but some here predicting this to be a tight game based on no evidence this season isnt being realistic. The bookies have Ireland by 13.5, the average margin of victory over Argentina based on the last 4 games in Dublin is 16 points. You add in where both teams are at currently and if anything you would expect the margin to be North of 13.5 & 16 rather than south of it. Just saying anyone who say's this will be close I dont want to see them Sunday evening coming back and saying us winning comfortably was obvious, they lose all credibility at that point.

    Yeah, we won back in 2018. Also I dont recall us underestimating Argentina in 2015 if that's what you are referring to, in fact if anything we treated them with the utmost respect.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Disappointed to see Pom over Coombes or Timoney, and I Frawley would have been an interesting shout.

    1 new cap during the AI's is fairly low, I know he's developing the gameplan rather than the squad, still could have blooded 2 players that look like they'll be involved for a long time



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