Virgin Media Ireland moving to full fibre - 10Gbps and wholesale access

bk · 04-11-2021 9:52am #1

Virgin Media has just announced that they are moving to "full" fibre with support for up to 10Gbps

It isn't clear from the reports what "full" fibre means, but I assume it means they will be moving to FTTH.

They say it will cost €200 million, take 3 years and will be aimed at their existing footprint, so not an expansion.

Interestingly they also say that they are going to open up their network to other operators on a wholesale basis.

I assume this is in response to Siro's recent announcement of them expanding their network, it is likely that the Siro network will be expanding more and more into VM territory and they have to respond to the competition. They are probably hopping this will slow Siro down. I'm wondering will they directly replace the coax with fibre or will they just pull the fibre past homes and leave people on DOCSIS and only pull the fibre to their home if they order products greater than 1Gbps?

So can anyone in the know confirm that they are moving to FTTH? XGS-PON? Leaving customers on DOCSIS or moving fully to FTTH?

Seems like exciting times with Eir, Siro, NBP and now VM all doing big upgrades, along with Starlink. Sounds like we might get some serious competition and great speeds.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/1103/1257676-virgin-media-to-invest-200m-in-making-network-fibre/

dam099 · 04-11-2021 11:46am

If they are going to do wholesale would any of the ISPs really be interested in doing it if DOCSIS as presume that would mean sourcing new end user equipment and other possible complications. I would think they would only do if they can leverage their existing models with OpenEir and SIRO?

They may also need to get more aggressive with pricing, its usually possible to easily beat Virgin's pricing by shopping around OpenEir and SIRO based resellers.

bk · 04-11-2021 12:04pm

"If they are going to do wholesale would any of the ISPs really be interested in doing it if DOCSIS as presume that would mean sourcing new end user equipment and other possible complications. I would think they would only do if they can leverage their existing models with OpenEir and SIRO?"

Yes, this is why I assume that they are going FTTH. I can't see any of the others being interested in running over DOCSIS.

Also I agree on VM's pricing. I think they will find it hard to keep their prices so high in the face of increased competition from Eir and Siro FTTH.

zg3409 · 04-11-2021 12:06pm

I don't know the answer but it looks like ftth. I assume old network will stay for a long time.

https://www.virginmedia.ie/about-us/press/2021/virgin-media-ireland-announces-national-fibre-network-upgrade/

KildareP · 04-11-2021 2:24pm

With Virgin's existing network, everything is fibre up to a nearby street cabinet already.

Like with VDSL, the fibre is handed off onto copper at the cabinet - multichannel RF over co-ax in the case of Virgin instead of VDSL over twisted pair in the case of OpenEir.

What Virgin are rolling out in the UK and also in parts of Gorey and Arklow is full fibre to the premises, where it's a fibre cable pulled right into the house just as with OpenEir, SIRO, NBI, etc. However, instead of handoff to Ethernet the handoff is to a co-ax connection which uses the existing DVB/DOCSIS standards. That way they can continue to use the same modems and STB's on all parts of their network.

With this new rollout they could continue utilising RF over Glass and DVB/DOCSIS while also allowing other operators who don't operate DVB/DOCSIS based platforms access to the same cable by using multiple multiple laser wavelengths. That'd mean RFoG is carried on one laser wavelength and someone signing up to Virgin gets one type of ONT and the Hub4 DOCSIS modem while someone signing up to, say, Vodafone gets a different ONT with Ethernet handoff and Vodafone's Gigabox modem.

I'd wonder whether they'd bother doing that though, whether they use it as an opportunity to cut customers over from DVB/DOCSIS platforms onto pure IP, area by area, or perhaps keep their options open and continue with DVB/DOCSIS for now and possibly go pure IP later on.

The later means they could just replace the cable into the home but leave everything else internally as is. They've only just launched the Hub 5 with WiFi 6 and a 2.5Gbps port in the UK and the Virgin360 platform isn't around all that long either...

I definitely can't see them building and then maintaining two different types of network alongside each other.

bk · 04-11-2021 5:32pm

Thanks KildareP, I hadn't thought of looking what VM02 are doing in the UK. It seems VMo2 UK announced almost the exactly the same thing in the UK a few months ago, using exactly the same language "full" fibre and plans to open their network to Wholesale access. So if we look at what they are doing in the UK it might be a guideto what they will do here. The plan seems to be:

Pull fibre to each home (FTTP - Premises) from the closest VM cab through their ducts. In the UK these cabs are usually within 150 meters of homes.
The FTTP will use XPS-GPON
They will only activate the fibre if customers specifically order it, at least for the first few years. They will continue to run the DOCSIS 3.1 network in parallel for a few years.
Looks like they won't be doing DOCSIS 4, this is the alternative. They say pulling FTTP like this will cost £100 per customer, versus £60 per customer for DOCSIS 4. The small extra cost of FTTP makes it worth doing.
They are currently trailing 2.2Gbps on DOCSIS 3.1, so still plenty of life in DOCSIS, I'd say the FTTP will be for when people want 5 to 10gbps speeds.
They currently use RFoG (radio frequency over glass) for their FTTP customers in the UK. This means these FTTP customers continue to use the same DOCSIS modems and DVB over coax cable within their homes.
However despite the above, as it is XPS-GPON, wholesale customers might choose to go with more regular ethernet and IPTV.
In the UK, Sky are rumoured to become a wholesale customer on their network.

All very interesting and exciting stuff.

As an aside, I was just reading about the new Hub 5, it sounds great, as you say Wifi 6 and a 2.5Gbps port, but even better it dumps the crappy Intel Puma chipset and replaces it with a Broadcom one. That will make people very happy.

Thor · 05-11-2021 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119310#Comment_118119310

Great details BK. Really can't wait to be done with their crappy puma ****, and nice to know their making some solid upgrade plans going forward, but wondering will we see 2.5Gbps as the UK are starting to see soon and actually get these new hubs.

KildareP · 05-11-2021 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119310#Comment_118119310

I suppose the main difference between us and the UK is much of the UK's utilities are ducted, unlike ours which tend to be run along soffits/gutterboards and strung from house to house. Whether they'll run fibre alongside whilst retaining/maintaining the existing co-ax trunk will be interesting to see.

ED E · 07-11-2021 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123821#Comment_118123821

This is the big thing. VMs access network here is strung from house to tree (yes, tree) to house, refitting the glass may not be as simple especially if a few angsty gits object.

bk · 08-11-2021 1:25pm

Yes, though in my part of Dublin at least, they all seem to be buried in ducts. Same in my sisters estate in Cork. So it seems to be mixed.

BTW Does anyone know how they do FTTP with apartments. Do they run the fibre to each individual apartment or just to the basement of the building and then do RFoG to the coax up to each apartment?

I live in an apartment with VM, currently the VM cab is just outside the building, probably fibre to there, then coax into the basement as far as I can tell, where it is then split there before going up to each apartment. Just curios how they might handle apartments like this.

KildareP · 08-11-2021 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136146#Comment_118136146

Have only come across two examples of FTTP in apartments, both SIRO, where both had ESB ducts in-situ and SIRO used the same duct into the distribution panel in each apartment.

In most cases I imagine a mini-VDSL cabinet would be sufficient to get 100Mb to all over the existing twisted pair so most FTTP rollouts in all likelihood won't have targeted apartments.

Nearest comparison I can think of is Sky which uses an RFoG system in the vast majority of cases for apartments with shared dish installations. A dish with an LNB that outputs the four bands on a fibre connection as opposed to RF is used. Unless ducts are available, multiple fibre drops are run along the fascia and dropped down at regular intervals from the soffits into surface mount junction boxes where there's a fibre splitter. Fibre is then run from the inside of each apartment out, using airbricks or vents if available otherwise drilled, to the nearest junction box where it's connected in. Fibre cable is brought inside to where your TV will go and a convertor box converts the incoming fibre over to RF and presents it as a universal LNB output (or wideband in the case of SkyQ) with screw on f-connector connections.

bk · 08-11-2021 2:51pm

Yes, my building has a pretty interesting history. Believe it or not, it doesn't even have Eir twisted pairs!

Originally when built it came with Smart Telecom as the only option! They had a mini ADSL DSLAM in the basement, eventually upgraded to ADSL2, never got VDSL, with cat5 up to each apartment. It was so slow, max 20mb/s and also how you got TV over early IPTV.

Fortunately we eventually got UPC/VM in, it took many years and it cost them a lot, but they did a great job, coax from the basement up to each apartment via the internal risers. Been a complete life saver.

Sky did a complete cowboy job, I wish it was fibre. They just ran big bundles of standard sat cable down the front of the building to each apartment, ugly as hell.

Gusser09 · 19-11-2021 2:30pm

Looking forward to the whole sale element mostly. It'll open it right up and make it easier to swap when the only alternative is currently Eir up to 100mb.

Always envious when I see new customer deals etc. i have the 500mb Virgin Broadband currently and can't fault it.

Daith · 20-11-2021 9:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191816#Comment_118191816

Yes, I can't swap to Eirs FTTC for various reasons, so am stuck with Virgin. Halfway tempted to just go Eir 5G for a year, just get out of contract with Virgin.

Gusser09 · 20-11-2021 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118195386#Comment_118195386

I'm coming into the last two months of my contract on the 500mb @ 71 per month. Mad money really just for internet. I'll be letting it roll but I don't expect to see the whole sale thing any time soon. Surely the could just do that now rather than waiting on network upgrades.

Virgin Media Ireland moving to full fibre - 10Gbps and wholesale access

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