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The Irish protocol.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I don't know. downcow is a Unionist + seems to agree with what they have been doing (which taken at face value looks to me more like salami slicing the NI Protocol and not really negotiating with the EU how it should be implemented) but yet he says he wants to keep the NI Protocol, so just trying to square that circle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,727 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The person delegated by us in the EU had to come to NI to find out what easements and flexibilities business needed. That's how useless the UK is to NI, they couldn't even negotiate those for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    None of us really know.

    but tell me what you think outcome two looks like?

    or what you think worst case scenario is for ni in 12 months time.

    ….and since you appear to be posting with integrity, help me understand what are the inconsistencies in my posts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Well to be more accurate I wouldn’t say I want to keep ni protocol, Rather I realise there are protocols between all nations who trade with each other. Therefore we require protocols between Uk and Eu. I don’t really care what it is called or if it evolves out of current ni protocol.

    I think we have a good starting point ie lots of benifits for ni already bagged, free movement to Eu and gb bagged and from Eu to ni, and now moving on to sort out freer movements from gb to ni. Eu now ‘making compromises’ according to coveny etc - sounds like a slippery slope. Eu now agreeing to change laws to accommodate our concerns. What’s not to like about that?

    if this is handled correctly ni can, in years to come, become a net contributor to Uk. One of the jewels in its crown.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Your mistake is thinking it's bagged. If it falls apart, you lose all the benefits and will be an undersupplied part of a nation across the sea from a mainland that has severe supply chain issues.

    Wouldn't be surprised if that was the cause of the increase in trade between north and south and not the protocol at all.

    And as part of the UK, you should really be hoping that the UK would change its laws to accommodate your concerns. It's the UK you're married to.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Let’s assume Uk will not be joining sm etc.

    What do you think is the worst case scenario for ni?

    what do you think is the best case scenario for ni?



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What do you think is the worst case scenario for ni? No protocol.

    what do you think is the best case scenario for ni? The NIP. Which includes any improvements made to it.

    Basically, Northern Ireland is lucky that the UK is dropping the role of the ECJ thing. Or at least it seems that way.

    You said the EU is on a slippery slope. Have further easements been agreed? If so, fair play to the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,727 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Judging from your answers downcow, Unionism is about to split ideologically:

    One side believe this:

    We require protocols between Uk and Eu. I don’t really care what it is called or if it evolves out of current ni protocol. (Your own words)

    and the other believing this:


    “The EU far from protecting peace in Northern Ireland has actively endangered it, not least by its irresponsible rewarding of Irish Government threats of violence.

    “The Protocol tears up the principle of consent and fundamentally undermines the constitutional position of the United Kingdom.” (Jamie Bryson)


    Would that be a fair assessment of the situation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    J why do you bother? The same poster stated previously that they had no exposure to Irish. You're wasting energy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Hey DC I thanked your post not because of the sentiment contained within but because it's further evidence the sincerity of your posts.

    You claim here your dad was Irish. I found this odd since you previously stated that he was British and from the UK.

    Your description is exactly what makes an English person british and yes it is what makes me british.One correction though It is not because me and Tony Blair live in uk that we are british, it is because we were born british due mainly to our parents being british and being born in the uk.

    A quick search will reveal more posts like the above. So to sum up your father is a British unionist whose party trick was to sing the soldiers song. Could you fill us in on how he survived the unionist community?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    How do you associate Irish with the worst type of republican if your father sang the soldiers song in Irish? Was he the worst type of republican?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    You do know that it was written in English ,and translated to Irish - it is the soldiers song ...

    Sorry - just saw that's all been said above ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭Lollipop95


    Just saw a segment on Sky News talking about Article 16 possibly being triggered - could this really happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Well outcome 2 is NI Protocol pretty much collapses.

    I don't think the EU will just say ah well we tried, well played there UK, and shrug the shoulders. There will be an EU-UK trade dispute of some type over that, it could all get quite serious. NI (as part of the UK) will suffer from that, as will Ireland.

    The basis NI Protocol provides for the current Customs free trade in goods between NI and Ireland/rest of the EU ends when it dies. e.g. those companies that FT article posted mentioned that were watching the situation to see if NI Protocol gets put on a firmer footing (i.e. UK implements it in an agreed fashion with the EU, stops seeking to dodge out or use it for leverage against the EU) will not invest.

    Even if no "physical" land border appears between NI-Ireland yet, I think this will have a quick chilling effect on legitimate trade between Ireland and NI. Now I've read Brexiters/unionists syaing that NIs trade with GB is far greater & more important but latter will still hurt and will be damaging esp. in sectors like agriculture.

    Short(er) term you will keep NI more attached to the UK (I agree with you NI Protocol is weakening links between NI and GB). However NI will be poorer than it would have been (loss of the Protocol, and a damaged UK economy due to EU-UK trade dispute). It may be more politically unstable because whatever about NI Protocol angering Unionists, NI Nationalists are not going to be happy at all with alternative NIPless outcomes for both for those "identity" reasons, and you have added problem of a bad economy in NI on top which they will blame UK govt. (and I suppose Unionist parties) for. Although there is a handy pressure valve there in that young people (unlike rest of UK) can just get Irish passport and leave for work in an EU member state where they may have better prospects if they are fed up.

    It's just a logical inconsistency in your posts where you support + like the combative UK govt. approach, which to me looks like ending up destroying the agreement eventually, yet seem to recognise that survival of NI Protocol or similar is necessary in face of Brexit and might even have some economic benefit for NI (compared to rest of UK) even if there is a cost of damage to Unionism and a weakening of the links to UK from it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I don’t see any contradiction in those two statements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You really do go to great lengths to find any little chinks in what I say.

    if I said that I have never been exposed to Irish I was wrong.

    More accurate, my exposure has been very limited, probably to 3 categories

    funny stuff - my da singing the anthem and counting to 20 maybe once a year

    negative stuff - chuckie ar la (and I am not going away to google that, you know what I mean so let’s be less sensitive and reverent about about languages) Painted up on our schools churches and orange halls, and shouted at us often

    neutral - seeing Bord na mona peat etc and hearing peoples names



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is silly stuff but if I don’t respond I get hammered for that.

    my fathers was a bit of fun but he would have said how it was forced into him be the catholic school. So hardly a positive experience for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Or all the issues for both sides that you mention, may cause everyone to have great flexibility and sort it out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Speedline


    I don't mean to go on about your father, but I find it hard to believe that your father had a dislike for the Irish language JUST because he was a protestant child. Every child in the school would have learned the song. He would have been treated the same in that regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Whats the significance of counting to 20?

    Also, why is singing the anthem funny, or a 'party piece'? Strikes me as very odd.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,727 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You are happy with the Protocol...are you saying you are happy that NI's place in the UK union has been undermined thus undermining the UK itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,727 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Eddy that is a pretty offensive post. I try to share honestly and your nitpicking is nasty and pathetic.

    I also have not a clue what you are saying in your straw-clutching post

    I don’t know where I said my father was Irish? I have never heard him claim to be Irish and he was definitely British and a British passport holder

    I don’t do this often but I feel the need, if I can remember how, to put you on my ignore list and that will bring my total ignored to one, so that should make you feel important.

    I would suggest that if you find my contributions to be dishonest and you despise me so much, then I think you should put me in the ignore list and then you would not have to read my insincere crap



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Fair point. I guess it is about perception. My father was born in 1924 so his family would have had very recent memory of being cut out of ni. He blamed Carson for that. So I guess if you feel British and you don’t want to learn Irish or the Irish anthem then you probably feel alienated and discriminated against and feel you are being forced.

    so I accept what you are saying and maybe he was treated just like the catholic kids, but it didn’t feel like that to him.

    I guess same was happening the other way around north of the border



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Right guys you are now overplaying this. He would give us the very odd rendition to show his Irish skills. His skills didn’t go much further than the anthem and counting to 20. It was fun in our family setting and absolutely not nasty or spiteful. Lighten up everyone about this. It’s not what some of you are thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am not happy with the protocol in its current form. Have you not been paying attention?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    That’s not the word I would use but I would agree much of it came from feeling a victim and discriminated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,727 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    But you are happy it has undermined the UK and your place in it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    The same protocol responsible for so much economic prosperity you're afraid that the place will suddenly become too expensive for people from England or Ireland to move there?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Let’s try again.

    “But you are happy it has undermined the UK and your place in it”

    no I am not!



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