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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    And people wonder how accidents happen.

    Prosecution lawyer takes up a semi-auto rifle, doesn't personally clear the firearm, points it towards the gallery, finger on trigger, bolt carrier forward/closed, with the only saving grace being no magazine is inserted.

    I don't care how many people checked and cleared this prior, the first rule of gun safety is you check and clear any firearm handed to you. Also beggars the legitimacy of the "expert" that handed him a rifle with the bolt forward, closed breach, and no safety flag/identifier to show its clear/safe.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Any idea what he was trying to achieve?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Spot the difference in trigger disipline tp the above pic.


    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    I'd imagine it was for dramatic effect. The defence did something similar too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    Probably trying to provoke fear in the jury so they would maybe accept the prosecution line that the guys attacked Rittenhouse because of fear/provocation.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Yup. Last image they [jury] have in their minds is an AR-15 being pointed at them all throughout deliberations.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Given recent events with a "cold" gun I thought such actions would be verboten.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    „We learn from history that we don't learn from history!“ — Desmond Tutu



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The court floor is a stage. A game played out by actors.

    You like to the that the props for the scene are check and checked again. So that it’s no more a risk than guns being point at people, closed bolts, safety off in movies or simulation drills.

    But as we’ve seen, accidents happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭JP22


    News Today - Antigen Testing.

    So our illustrious leaders who are all on 100 grand plus a year tried to pull off a quick one this morning and get themselves free Antigen Testing. They backtracked pretty fast though, oh, it was a mistake and we meant something else. etc. etc. Over the next few days political leaders and the usual accompaniment of nodding donkeys will be ducking and diving as usual, smoke and mirrors comes to mind.

    They then rolled out (don’t you just love departmental speak) Antigen Testing for all, oh but wait, it’s not fully available for another eleven days and we the un-washed have to pay for same.

    Why the wait I ask, could it possibly be that some politician/political advisor/gov department etc. didn’t foresee that antigen testing would be needed down the road and failed to ensured sufficient supplies were purchased and in stock for such an event.

    So, what’s new today folks – nothing really – SNAFU.

     

    I have come to the conclusion that politics are too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.

    Charles de Gaulle



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    No shortage in Aldi, I got a five pack and an ice-cream maker while I was at it.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭JP22


    Feisar.

    I know test kits are available to buy but I was referring to the Government in my thread, all/most government ministers/departments are saying we (the gov) will provide Antigen Test kits for people.

    On a side note, did you pay government tax/vat on the test kits?



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭JP22


    Just done a Google, should have done it earlier.

    From what I understand, no vat on Covid equipment incl testing kits however, this is a temporary measure. This government sure likes it pound of flesh.

    Link hereunder.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/documents/temporary-vat-measures-relating-to-covid-19.pdf

    2. Concessional VAT zero-rating measure for Vaccines and Testing Kits Following a request from the Minister for Finance, Revenue will permit the application of the zero rate of VAT to the supply of Covid-19 vaccines, the supply of Covid-19 in-vitro diagnostic medical devices (testing kits) and services closely linked to both. Council Directive (EU) 2020/2020 of 7 December 2020 amending Directive 2006/112/EC Covid-19, provides for the temporary zero-rating of supplies of Covid-19 vaccines and Covid19 testing kits, subject to conditions. Covid-19 vaccines must be authorised by the EU Commission or by the State. Covid-19 test kits must conform with the essential requirements of all relevant European Medical Device Directives, for example a Covid-19 test kit product which has a CE marking is proof that it meets those requirements. Services are treated as closely linked to the supply of Covid-19 vaccines and Covid-19 testing kits only where they are directly linked and necessary for the supply of those vaccines and testing kits. This concessional measure will apply from 12 December 2020 until enactment of Finance Bill 2021.

     

    More here.

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/covid-19-taxud-response/covid-19-waiving-vat-and-customs-duties-vital-medical-equipment_en



  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    I went across the border last week to buy some tests came out with 3 boxes free



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Rittenhouse NOT GUILTY on ALL charges.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    Proper decision. I'm surprised they took so long to clear him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Delighted for the chap, proper exoneration where the jury are asked to consider lesser charges and decline too!


    I wonder how much "fiery but mostly peaceful" protesting will go on after this, or will they go right into suing Rittenhouse in civil court.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    Listening to the Judge thanking the jury and he pretty much said they got the correct verdict! Well done.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Comical.

    Sky news reporting on the Rittenhouse verdict:

    Kyle Rittenhouse, an American teen on trial for killing three men during an anti-racist protest, has been found not guilty.

    The guy that survived admitted to being involved in arson, and the judge even berated the prosecution for downplaying the rioting, arson and looting that was going on that night and the night(s) before.

    Yet the media says to trust them. Speaking of media and trust, I see MSNBC is in the doo-doo and the Judge barred them from the building with calls for an investigation for pssible jury tampering/intimidation. The MSNBC "reporter" was essentially stalking some jurists and the lady, Irene something or other, in MSNBC that instructed the "reporter" to do it has as off last night deleted all social media accouts she had.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Based on the law of the state, it was the correct verdict. Legally, it was self defence. As I said pre trial, it all hinges on the first guy and how it was instigated.

    I also think that the case shows that the law of messed up. Taking politics and everything out of the picture. when guns care openly carried and brandished at will. The risk of somebody feeling threatened is never far away. Even if the threat isn’t real, they can still shoot.

    the other issue is that anyone can legally arm himself on the street regardless of whether or not they have the competence. The case clearly he didnt.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Legally the right decision was reached, however morally? The lad rocked up to a hostile situation with a rifle, IMHO he's in the wrong. The fúck did he think was going to happen? I must say though, if I was in a tight spot I'd want him with me, my God he's some operator.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The kid operated better using some pretty inferior equipment [Anderson arms AR15,with nothing added]and had no plate armour or training and backup than some professional operators out in the sandboxes. As to the right or wrongs of his actions... You roll the dice and take your chances every day and discuss with 20/20 hindsight the end effects.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    However, and for me this is what it keeps coming back to, this [Ireland] is not America. I have no idea of the mentality of someone brought up with a 2nd amendment "attitude/environment". Its as alien to me as the entire situation that this trial was about. I don't agree with some gun laws in America, and for me the idea of gun registration is not only not a problem, but I don't understand the hgue resistance to it. However Americans don't have to explain or justify themselves in such matters, hence the 2nd amendment. When a situation gets to this level the courts and police take over and the system works, as we've all seen.

    I agree with this. I haven't been in that environment. I'm an observer. Being completely honest, I am slightly jealous of some of there gun laws, and the access they have. On the other hand, I've been brought up to respect firearms. I see them as tools, not toys. Some of the attitudes and uses of firearms over there seem dangerous and idiotic. I also support laws that separate our legal use from criminal use. As such, I'm ok with firearm registration also. People opposing it are unknowingly blurring the line between use and criminals. Similar situation in the US where you can purchase a firearm without a background check in most states.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Just out of curiosity, what tags are you all using for the quotes? I've found the old tags don't work anymore and I'm not sure how the new site works in that respect.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    kowloon - Just out of curiosity, what tags are you all using for the quotes? I've found the old tags don't work anymore and I'm not sure how the new site works in that respect.

    Infor below:

    Start by typing the name of the poster you wish to quote. Highight their name and select the "B", this is for bold font.


    Copy and past their comment after the username. Select the entire text and the username, iow all you have written, and on the left, outside the dialogue box in the margin, you'll see an icon. Click on it and select the inverted comma symbol. It'll open a smaller sub menu, select "quote". It'll now put everything you have selected into quotation marks.

    Hit space bar, then return once or twice until it stops including the text as part of the quote. Then write your reply.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Kowloon - Think I have the quotes working, thanks!

    I've created a Monster. 😁

    kowloon - You have a point on people making themselves "chiefs". I stay out of the politics of it because every time anyone tries to make a stand for any rights we get hammered for it with new threats of regulations dreamt up by people who deem themselves experts because they've seen Lethal Weapon twice and taken notes.

    Not intending to personally attack you, so don't take it as such, but that is another cause of the sport being in the position its in. Politics in te sport is not tasteful. Its messy, argumentative, disruptive and in an ideal world unnecessary. However the damage our own crowd has done to it over the past 12 to 15 years is monumentally larger than any legislation (which actually usually comes from direct input of one or more so called shooting organisations) and when people are warned about it before it happens the majority of people simply say "not interested in politics". They then wake some morning to find their sport is gone and the gun for it banned and then start bitching about it being banned.

    You don't have to participate, but at the very least stay apprised of goings on. The general you, not you specifically.

    kowloon - What do you mean by the 2%?

    Bit of a dig at the vast majority that do nothing, but expect everything. In any given sport there are 100% of members/people with 98% that compete and only 2% that do all the non glamorous adminsitrative, legal, and political work behind the scenes.

    In a recent petition, well not so recent now I think about it, we asked for people to print it off and get it signed at club houses, ranges, by family, and sign it online if you have access to the interweb. After 7 weeks we got just under 2,000 signatures. Under 2,000. Out of some 150,000 people directly involved and a possible half a million indirectly.

    Think about that for apathy. Less than 2,000 (or just over 1.3%) felt the need to have their voice heard or at least show their opposition by signing a bit of paper or clicking a button on the internet. Showing once again the 2% rule.

    The bigger sign of this rule is when it comes to shooting organisations and governing bodies. A few men at the head table making unilateral decisions, sometimes withotu consutling members, that can and have called for:

    • Banning of fox shooting
    • Banning of 223 rifles
    • Banning of semi auto rifles
    • Ban on night hunting (of any quarry)
    • Privatised courses for firearm ownership
    • The control of pistol licensing
    • Time lock safes for every firearm owner
    • Banning of currently licenseable 22 pistols
    • etc.

    By the way, all the above has only been called for in the last 6 years. So this is not ancient history as some try to say to deflect attention from their actions. Best part, sense the sarcasm, its still happening to this day.

    No accounting for their actions, no one to have to answer to and due to the 2% rule the other 98% are either apathetic or unaware of what is happening.

    Post edited by Cass on
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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I've contacted a TD once before and it went nowhere, after that I stayed clear of the political side of things because it just seems like any stand on rights gets us hammered in return. Recently I've found that the Firearms section in Justice has all new staff and they seem to be purposely slow in issuing import certs. It's almost like they know we have to pay for storage while waiting for months and are hoping it'll put us off further imports. I'm a bit ticked off with it all ATM.

    Thought about, and talked with a few people about the representation of historical firearms in Ireland, but that would be yet another organisation out of nothing claiming to represent everyone.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I'm not naive enough to believe we'll get 100% engagement nor do I believe that everyone should engage to the extent of demanding meetings, and other real world stuff that eats up time, but when I hear talk of "united shooting groups" I simply remember all the failed petitions, and without sounding like a broken record, all other stuff I listed above and wonder if we cannot get even 2% of signatures then we have no hope of anything else.

    I don't oppose new groups and there are a lot that focus solely on the shooting/firearm aspect. They are fine and more power to them and they are a grass roots type organisation that only care for the sport/hertiage of the pursuit not who controls it and how they can benefit from it.

    Take the money/power out of shooting and you'll see a lot of interest by some, wane.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    Rittenhouse made two mistakes.

    1. Going to the protest. I know he went with good intentions but he was very naive.
    2. Getting separated from the other armed guys. If he stayed with them, no way would anyone have attacked him. He was singled out because he was alone.

    He'll probably have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life but the court reached the right decision. Luckily there was footage of him being attacked because even with the footage, the media were very against him. If there was no footage, he'd be hanged, drawn and quartered by now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I think he should have stayed at home and left policing to the police. As to the muppets that attacked him, the fúck were they thinking? They deserved what they got if only from their sheer stupidity.

    First they came for the socialists...



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