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Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    A right to housing and a right to food are definitely things that exist. I believe we've signed up to the latter and in practice agree to the former.

    Anyway, all the talk of supply and demand ignores the fact free market economics aren't applied to housing. There are significant government interventions into how the market operates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    They really don’t. A “right” indicates that it is an entitlement, no such entitlement exists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    its important to realise, our primary government parties are fundamentally free market liberations, or are heavily influenced by such ideologies, hence their ham fisted interventions to resolve these issues, their 'efforts' have in fact exposed both renters and landlords even more

    we need to be very careful when using such statements, some use it as absolute universal law, but in these cases, its simply not true, the failures in our property markets are far more complex than so....



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    The only thing that will drive rents down is an increase in the supply of houses.

    Putting caps on rent will cause some landlords to sell their properties thus reducing the stock of rental houses - with the effect that it will push up prices further.

    The only solution is more housing becoming available, and that won't happen with a swish of a magic wand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The RPZ limits only apply if the tenant both knows about it and insists on it.

    I've seen pushy LLs get 10% increases in a zone with a 3.5% limit. The tenants were foreign-born and didn't have the confidence to rock the boat despite knowing the limit.

    Rent inflation would mercilessly outstrip all other inflation if some (not all) LLs had their way.

    Price gouging can be immoral, it depends on the specific set of circumstances.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    Housing Policy from FF/FG has us in the situation we are in today. Not LL, Not Tenants .

    Take these issues up with your FF/FG public representative as FF/FG got us to this point with their housing Policies. No other party besides FF/FG have had their housing policies implemented.

    This is either by design or neglect but whatever way you look at it FF/FG have their stamp of approval all over it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    In the background to this is left-wing politicians (and indeed some from other parties) objecting to large rental developments in their constituencies for various idiotic reasons.

    The fact is that more supply benefits everyone (aside from existing landlords I guess, although it will benefit them indirectly as society benefits).



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Well the background to this is the property crash that bankrupted the country and the banks, and killed off construction for years. There's only one party responsible for that. The last decade has been a recovery from that.

    To ignore history is to learn nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the country was fine heading into the crash, the banks on the other hand......




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    I'm not going to argue legalism with people on the internet. I can agree that the term right is over used and no universal entitlements to housing or food enshrined in Irish law. Happy? As concepts and laws these rights do exists for example under the UNCRC without being legislated for in Ireland. Effectively people do have these entitlements in Ireland.

    Somewhat missing the point however, that just because something is a basic need or entitlement doesn't mean you're entitled to have it provided for on your own terms by private citizens.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    The last election was very close. I do believe it's because people are angry at the housing situation. I believe SF will win the next election as FF/FG are not going to do anything drastically about the housing issue.

    Yes it's a supply issue. But the housing crisis has been going on for ten years and only because they almost lost the last election, FF/FG are finally doing something about it. But all there plans are maybe at best ten years away from helping the situation.

    I don't feel entitled to accommodation for free. But having worked my whole life and worked through the pandemic on the front line, I see the fact that my partner and I can't afford a small one bedroom apartment in North Dublin and face homelessness as a failure of society. We both work full time and explained the situation to our LL when she increased the rent. She doesn't care.

    We can't get social housing as we are a little over the limit. So we can't get HAP or any help from the government. I'm almost 40 and social housing is are only chance of getting a stable home. The banks won't give me a mortgage once I hit 40 and we no hope of saving for a deposit anyway, anytime soon.

    To say I feel bleak is an understatement. We put off having children as no stable home for them. We both grew up poor and don't want that for our kids.

    I have no idea what the future holds. I know the government won't help and having worked in healthcare my whole life, I feel let down by a society that doesn't seem to care.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,548 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    No it wasn't it was too dependent on property related taxes. The economy in general was dependent on property to much as we were pushing exporting businesses to the wall with wage rates. As well we had a bloated PS.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Manion, there is no entitlement nor right to housing nor food in Ireland, not in the Constitution, not through legal instruments. Please stop saying there is. Both are necessities, neither is a right.

    In relation to housing and the Council of Europe, Ireland ratified the Revised European Social Charter on 04/11/2000, accepting 92 of the 98 paragraphs of the Revised Charter, excluding the Article 31 on the right to housing.

    Society does care, housing will be among the most important topics at the next election, but that still does not mean private LLs are responsible for either the housing crisis, nor for providing accommodation.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    There is no benefit for most people having a very expensive house as they are not selling it or if they so have to buy another expensive property so I doubt that even enters most people's thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Did you notice anyone talking about negative equity over the last decade?

    This is those same people but the shoe is on the other foot now.

    A better LTV also allows homeowners to decrease the mortgage rate they are paying if they go about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Dav010, I think you've missed the point, there is no right to housing nor food in this Irish constitution and these rights have not been enshrined in Ireland law. As per my post. Rights are not the same as entitlements and just because these rights are enacted as specific entitlements else where in Europe a d under various UN articles doesn't mean we have them in Ireland. We didn't sign up to the right to housing under the European social charter, other countries did. These rights exist. Again I need to stress that private landlords are no responsible for upholding these rights and entitlements, the state is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,378 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    no they'll sand you a letter telling you to put the rent down. that's what my council idid in 08



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    I would suggest the country was not fine. Massive property inflation, conspicuous expenditure etc. etc.

    People were behaving pretty recklessly with money. Which is not to excuse the idiocy of the banks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    while FF or FG made the decisions in the end , they were influenced by various actors on the left , Beit SF , the other left wing political parties , NGO and charity sector or the left wing media , all frantically called for more onerous rules and regulations which drove landlords out of the market , Add in the constant blocking of planning by SF in Dublin


    FG and FF were spineless for caving in but the idea and policies originated from the left



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    The Law locks up the man or woman

    Who steals the goose from off the Common

    But leaves the greater villain loose

    Who steals the Common from the goose.


    The Law says that we must atone

    If we take things we do not own.

    But leaves the Lords and Ladies fine

    Who take things that are yours and mine.


    The Law locks up the man or woman

    Who steals the goose from off the Common.

    And geese will still a Common lack........

    ..until they go and steal it back!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,974 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    There was a young man from Boards,

    Who had a problem with Land Lords,

    He wanted his rent paid for free,

    From the tax of you and me,

    So he could live a life he couldn't afford.

    😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,974 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    😂 I was feeling charitable as I turned 40 last month. A mere child these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭Glenalla


    This is so true. What was designed to protect renters by the government has resulted in LL raising the rent by the maximum each year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    I find tenants hilarious. They complain about landlords making a profit. Yet I am sure if you check the same people will be on donedeal/adverts trying to get the max for anything they are trying to sell and make the biggest profit possible.

    Supply and demand is the problem. The biggest issue with supply at the moment is SF and the other political parties

    It is no good for Sinn Fein is houses are built so they will reject every possible housing across Ireland. It is better for them for the housing situation to get worse because a lot of people seem to want to ignore they are part of the problem. Just look at DCC which build very little to no house from 2014 to 2019. This was a period when SF controlled and led DCC. They stalled every project and made sure no houses got built, they also allowed the rent deficit to build up to 32m and evicted only 1 tenant in that period.

    Yes FF & FG have a part to play but looking at the opposition as the answer is incorrect as well.

    You should be down demanding the likes of SF etc to stop blocking houses, if they know the public is turning against them on this subject they will allow the houses to be built. Otherwise you will be waiting till probably 2025 for a new election, then another 4-5 years for SF to get anything built. Do you really think at the tender age of 50+ any bank will be giving out mortgages?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Just throwing this out there as well as I got distracted by arguments over rights abuses, last week I saw Rebecca Moynihan of Labour bringing forward a right to opt for unfurnished home. Guess who has to pay for transport and storage of furniture between tenancies?. @jo187 if this was law tomorrow, would you feel entitled to exercise your rights as a tenant? Would you factor in whether or not your landlord could cover the cost of transport and storage?

    I was renting back in 2010, we'ed settle on a nice house in Kildare but the decor was dated. I was chatting to someone and mentioned the wardrobes where ugly as sin and she advised I demand the landlord modernize them, her logic was that I had them over a barrel and it wasn't like they where going to get better tenants in the middle of a recession. I was taken completely aback at the casual sense of entitlement the "**** them it's a business" attitude. This time last year I couldn't rent our my property, the market had collapsed briefly. It took two months to get new tenants in, one couple who turned up wanted a new kitchen installed though there was nothing wrong with the existing kitchen other than being dated.

    @jo187 when you first rented did you say to yourself, "I can pay more, I wonder if the land lord needs a little extra"? Did you factor in your landlords expenses every, did you ever put them first? Of course not. At the start of lockdown I saw numerous colleagues just walk out of leases without the full notice period and move. No one is going to pay more than they have to, no one is going to charge less than they can. The Irish times published details last week that half of all landlords have revenue of less than 10K per year. I'm an accidental landlord, I would never deliberately invest in a rental property. If I'd cashed out and put the value of the house in an ETF I would have made about 5 times the yearly after tax return I currently have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Private landlords have the option to provide unfurnished accomodation but many choose not to - is there some historical reason for that?

    They need to ensure the structure and fittings in the property are in good order, provide safety fittings on windows, smoke/CM alarms, and white goods in the kitchen but anything more is discretionary. Why do landlords in Ireland go to the expense of providing sofas, tables and chairs, beds, headboards, chests of drawers, lockers, curtains, carpets, light fittings etc etc? That must add to the rental price as landlords need to cover their costs.

    Unfurnished means less maintenance, just re-painting or repair/replace white goods between tenancies and tenants can have their own furniture and personal taste during their tenancy. Seems more sensible for both parties especially if unlimited tenancies are to become the norm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Exactly, wont this new right that is supposed to help tenants just result in beds, couches, mattresses etc not being provided? Wouldn't most tenants prefer not to have the expense forced on them? They talk about bringing us into line with europe but friends told me in Berlin you rent apartments without even a kitchen and you have to supply everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    I'm not a political person but I find the narrative that SF are a fault a great smokescreen FF/FG are putting up.

    FF/FG have been in power/opposition forever. We all know this started when we bailed out the banks and my generation were saddled with debt. The government stopped building houses and made difficult for people to get a mortgage. Unless you have access to the bank of Mommy & Daddy like Leo said.

    It really hasn't hit the middle class in the past few years and seeing the fear in FF/FG. I don't think SF will solve anything but a drastic change is needed



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    So FFG are being influenced by SF.


    Who knew.



    its this simple, we are in this situation because of supply, and successive governments have not planned for nor implemented plans that satisfy that demand. Their current plan housing for all is doomed to failure because we simply dont have the labour force to meet the targets that they have set, targets which are also set to low and wouldn't solve the problem even if they were met, and they wont be.



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