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Doctor Who - Season 13 - (**Spoilers**)

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    So the Doctor is annoyed at Yaz but patient with the others.

    I like Dan but feel he's very one note. Like saying "I have to get to her" the same way he speaks normally and no sign of emotion at seeing her, even just walking toward her rather than rushing.

    So is the Bel and Vinder story going to take up part of each episode? How long does her pregnancy last? Vinder was seemingly posted in that station for a long time before the flux then post flux, Bel is acting like she has been surviving for a long time as well, unless that's just due to time messing with things. Yet she's not showing yet.

    With the door seemingly on the floor, would they have been able to just walk into the TARDIS?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie


    Doctor Who: Flux – We Hope This Bel and Vinder Theory Isn’t True

    A few elements of Bel and Vinder’s story are being interpreted to support a theory that they will turn out to be the Doctor’s parents. The couple’s unborn baby, some theorise, will somehow be the child discovered long ago by Gallifreyan space traveller Tecteun, who, as we learned in the Series 12 finale ‘The Timeless Children’ used the child as the genetic template for the regenerating Time Lords.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,214 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Chibnall seems to be going about it all backwards.

    Usually when telling one story over many episodes you can say its like one episode is a chapter. Episode 1 is chapter 1. Episode 2 is chapter 2 and you get the idea. A structure building up.

    Chibnall has wrote this totally out of whack and its confusing. There's so much what's going on again moments. I get that he is building up for everything to come together however build up with something that makes sense. It's almost like "ahh, I'll make episode 1 chapter 3. Then episode 2 chapter 2" etc. Ugh.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Looks like Whitaker's final adventure will be an episode next year in the autumn; or so said the BBC. So I guess Flux finishes up in totality, or we get a cliffhanger ending.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A little behind the curve here so only got to episode 3 last night. This is definitely going to be a season that'll live or die on how well Chibnall ties it all together. It may even work best as something binged than watched piecemeal.

    I'm so bewildered by half the threads, yet sticking with the belief that it's all structural timey-wimey - and will come good in the end. I liked Vinder's backstory, and was a nice "grounded" piece of space adventure we don't see in Who. Same with Bel; Nu Who has become a show fixated with running at 11 at all times; these segues made for an enjoyable switch of pace

    All that said ...

    I had that immediate suspicion as soon as we learned Bel was pregnant. I had an awful feeling that's precisely where we're going and given she's living in a decaying universe - one that's...

    "timeless", if you will, then maybe that'd have an effect on the unborn child. It was the biggest, most glaring mystery that remained with the Timeless Child idea, but had presumed Chibnall had enough smarts to leave it open for future writers to touch - if they wanted. Leaving nothing unexplained is giving RTD the biggest poisoned chalice.

    I'd not bat an eyelid if RTD just reset the whole show and universe. Not to erase what came before but simply rejig via a big event.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Now they are going to shag around with things like people being sent back in time by the Angels....that would take the legs from underneath these creatures.

    Plus the ending will require a huge reset.

    Its a pity as the basis was there for a good episode, but I found it to be too much of a change in the direction of the Angels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Haven't watched yet but ah no, hate this reset idea



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Poor Jodie gets burdened with so much dialogue however it all seems to be mainly self-narration or exposition. She doesn't get to do a lot, does she?

    I thought the third episode was a mess. Fourth episode was ok but it does feel like Chibnall is trying to bring every Who villain in for a cameo at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Correct

    And is it all linking together ?

    It does not feel like it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Another thing I don't understand is the time aspect of this, are Vinder and Bel from the future? Are Division from the future, we know they're from the Doctor's past but are they still active.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Quite enjoyed that, still fear for the conclusion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    For anyone who didn't see, there was a mid credits sequence.

    Anytime they have an Angels episode it makes them seem less of a threat. But I did still like the episode and am curious to see how it goes.

    Overall I'm liking this season more than previous Whitaker ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    I am linking this series more too, though I think it is more to do with the writing for this final few episodes rather than any reflection on Whitaker. I think she has suffered badly from Chibnal's writing and direction, which has improved a bit for his last hurrah.

    The sound mix though has been way over the top since Chibnal took over, Murray Gold's sympathetic and appropriate accompaniment to the on screen activity has been replaced by over loud musical emphasis, even where it is not needed and sometimes (often) so driven that it drowns out the dialog or overwhelms the scene.

    Overall, I think Chibnal tried to re-invent, where it was not needed and turned what was a well established and reasonably complex sci fi series that appealed both to children and adults, in to 'The Famous Five, travel through time'. His reign will go down as Doctor Who's 'Enid Blyton' influenced era.

    I have high hopes that RTD will put it back on track and re-instate the elements that made it a unique adult and children appeal. It was always a generational crossover family viewing event, with a long running and often referenced history and it needs to go back to that having that focus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,372 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    @Ger Roe Interesting you think that the music mix was better under Murray Gold


    This too shall pass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,597 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    what was in the mid credits sequence? was it the bit with Bel and hologram or was there something I missed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Usually I'd say

    Timey Wimey, and Wibbly Wobbly.

    But I'm not sure the current show runners would understand it.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Quite enjoyed that episode; was definitely the most familiar of this season with its Base Under Siege structure. Funny how the best Who stories are the ones that stick to the classic formula. One of the stronger Angels stories too, even if with each return they open further holes in the logic, and seem to be as threatening as the scene demands. But the thrills were carried off well, the once off characters decent and hard to find fault without really trying.

    The Division stuff is a bit shoulder shrug inducing; hard to imagine what the Doctor is to them that might be so shocking given the entire universe is already currently fúcked. I've a feeling the Flux cloud, and our glam Big Bads will ultimately be nothing but red herrings.

    Am liking Vinder and Bel; no actual scenes together yet, but both actors are very likeable and charismatic. I'm hoping the baby isn't what the speculation says it is, though at this stage it's hard to imagine what else it might be. And Bels strong Norn Iron accent is never not distracting lol 😆



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Episode 5 must have had Chibnall get 10 people to write an idea each, and then he just stuck them all together.

    Absolute garbage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly



    There was certainly a lot of strands to that episode

    At least we got to know more about Division



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I dislike how they do the person turning around and music playing as if we're supposed to know who they are. Happened with the one in Division and the Snake dude, whose names I've forgotten already.

    Speaking of snake dude, where did that storyline come from 1 episode from the end?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Did feel a bit like 12 episodes mixed together. Some decent plot lines that could have been more branched out by themselves. Special effects are good. But camera work is annoying as is the audio levels.


    Like to also say, how strange it is to see this forum so quiet when a new season of Doctor Who is on.


    Sad times.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    I will say one thing about Episode 5 though, it was Jodie's best performance in the role to date.

    Pity she had nothing good to work with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Does anybody on here think the show needs to go into hiatus ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,214 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Totally. But at least Russell T Davies is back so hopefully we will be getting good Doctor Who episodes again.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The new series, when this current run ends, will have been running for 16 years. For comparison the original series ran for 26 solar cycles; Nu Who has already been on the air for more than half the classic iteration's lifespan. That's insane. But whereas that old show was very cheap, cheerful and utterly disposable - now it's a marketing juggernaut for a more global oriented BBC. It commands significant Location Shooting time, cross-media merchandising and licensing.

    It's too big to fail, but also now too big to grow. Arguably. So it's kinda stuck now in this weird limbo of being both a kid's show, and for adults. You'll certainly never see a season like the Philip Hinchcliffe era of Who, when you had these violent, grim tales unafraid to splash a little blood on occasion (albeit a bit hokey now 'cos of the ropey FX); "bad publicity" from the pearl-clutchers like Mary Whitehouse doing wonders.

    I hate to say it: but mayyyyybe, it ain't a hiatus the show needs. But some kind of reboot. I think once you start opening the doors on the Doctor's history, you're kinda admitting you've run out of narrative room with the show. The Doctor's past has always been this Point of No Return for the universe; the last mystery to be solved. I said it already but wouldn't be at all surprised if RTD did this; some timey-wimey that caused the universe to be reset, the show following a "new" 1st Doctor escaping Gallifrey for a new set of reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Surprised Disney hasnt bought it yet. Added to the Marvel universe or something.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Only watched episode 5 and suddenly my reboot idea feels ... more possible. All that talk of multiverses felt like a hint, even if "our" universe is imperilled. Either we see a big reset button (which nobody likes), or else some timey-wimey pulls the remainder of the universe into the new one.

    It'd want to be some chunk of change for the BBC to sell it I'd say, assuming anyone has come calling in the past.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,372 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    The 1996 Paul McGann TV movie was outsourced with the plan to make the show over in Canada. Obviously plans fell through.

    This too shall pass.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Makes sense given the IP was dirt at that point; only kept alive by the Virgin Media range of books and various young fans like Russell T Davies. Would love to know what the worth of the franchise would be now. Star Wars was bought for 4 billion IIRC?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    What an utter disappointment!


    Spend half the season on the Bel and Vinder storyline and it was all for nought

    Flux has destroyed nearly all the universe including the daleks, cybermen etc and the Doctor just stops it at Earth using the matter of a few ships and that's it, tho going by the earlier conversation I thought it would be the laughable rewinding of it

    So many other stupid things that there is too many to write here


    Chibnall really is an awful storyteller


    edit Reddit fuming about it, don't think there is a single positive comment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie


    What happened with 'the Grand Serpent' in the end? Had an urgent call of nature so missed that bit.

    Is it worth a re watch of the recording?

    Did anything get revealed about Bel and Vinder's child? (Or are they saving that for specials?)

    What, then, to make of Doctor Who: Flux? It’s a run that contains some of Chris Chibnall’s strongest episodes, but also one that shows a total disdain for picking up after itself. At times it feels like being on a roller-coaster – you’re supposed to enjoy the ride as you’re hurled this way and that, but once the journey is over, you’re not meant to brood over what you just experienced. And, in fairness, that’s precisely how most of Doctor Who’s audience will react: they’ll watch it once, they’ll laugh at the bit about Sontarans eating sweets and then, as soon as the credits roll, they’ll put something else on.

    Me? I’ll still be sat here, livid, if Dan doesn’t get his Mum a replacement wok for Christmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly



    Grand Serpent was made to walk thru one of the doors and ended up on a piece of rock in space

    Bel and Vinder were nothing more than side characters



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    They seem to be copying the Tennant exit, with some foreboding and a few specials.

    Will there be anything on par with Waters of Mars though ?

    Judging by what I just watched,unlikely.

    At least even Trial of a Timelord had some sense of a storyline running through it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    To be fair to Jodie, I don't think even Tom Baker could save those scripts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    So the entire universe including all of The Doctor's enemies but except Earth has been wiped out? Let's see how long that will last.

    Spoiler for New Year's episode trailer:

    Not long going by the appearance of the Daleks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    I'm really confused by the whole flux impact on things.

    It seems a lot of the universe was destroyed, but the flux was stopped when the doctor shot it with vortex engery. So most of the universe was saved? I guess that's why the division was gearing up to release another flux.

    I have no idea where to began. I had a headache by the end of this esp. I figured she won't open the watch. Because that's easier than dealing with it. Why would a character spend so much looking for something then just throw it away?

    They avoided romance for the Jodie run as the doctor, but they seem to be heading towards Doctor/Yas. I say go for it.

    Noting made sense and noting really mattered.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Yep I was also confused about the fact that she spent the whole series looking for answers about herself and then when she got them, threw them away. I wasn't really paying attention for the last 2 episodes to be honest so I can't say I fully understood everything, it all seemed terribly convoluted. Division created the flux to destroy the universe because the Doctor had poisoned it but they also sent the angels to kidnap her and bring her into the new universe? Were the Ravages just taking advantage of the whole situation? And the Grand Serpent, was he part of Division too? Or was he also just taking advantage?

    I really liked Jericho.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I assume she didn't open the watch due to being afraid of what she'd learn about herself. Or more than likely it was because Chibnall didn't want to come up with a whole new history apart from what he's already done



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    I think it more likely he's saving it for the other specials in which case throwing it away is a lazy delay tactic.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I swear I had read an interview with Chibnall, where he explained Flux was an attempt to write a story around CoVid, and that might explain why it was so scattershot at times. characters popping up randomly without sense; pandemic shooting schedules would have likely reduced availability or numbers. Not to excuse things, but might explain a little.

    The resolution was barely satisfying; it came together but scarcely in any coherent, structured fashion. More than a few segues proved to be pointless deadends - though it was fun to give Sontarans some serious time to shine (having been turned into comedy sidekicks via Strax). The editing though was really bad in places; not something I usually notice TBH.

    And I'm not even going to touch whatever the fúck now passes for the universe at the end of that. Severely reduced I guess? Not like anyone thought to write a moment with the Doctor showing sadness for the trillions dead, and millions of galaxies presumably destroyed.

    Bring on a reboot I say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Maybe I'm getting mixed up with a recent universe ending event in comics but didn't they say the Earth was going to be the last to be destroyed? So if they haven't reversed it somehow, then everything else has been wiped out.

    Of course there's that whole new universe sitting there, though don't know if that's populated in any way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Apologies if already posted but there's a trailer for the Xmas episode: and notwithstanding the inevitable return of the usuals, a time loop episode feels like the blindingly obvious concept rarely (if ever?) done in Dr Who. Am I right? Right this minute I can't think of a time the show did the kind of time loop we see so much of these days....




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    I'd love a fun episode of Doctor Who again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    An hour was too long to keep repeating the same action again and again, and then with 5 minutes to go come up with some quick solution.....

    Jodies acting was good, but again she had very little to work with.

    Chibnall is no good, delighted he is on the way out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    That was an atrocious story, got bored with it very quickly and we're to just forget the Flux seeing as they were gonna fly off to another planet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,214 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    It's being reported that Yaz (Mandip Gill) and Dan (John Bishop) are scheduled to leave along with Jodie later in the year.

    Not exactly surprising as theres always a clean house when a new show runner takes over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,178 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Will they split the Doctor in two and let Yaz and the Doctor go off to a parallel universe like Rose and the Doctor and live happily ever after.



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