Boosters

22-11-2021 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206541#Comment_118206541

Officially it's 7 days. Looking at the graph though you can see an increase in protection start after only 3-4 days. The beauty of immune memory.

Whocanibe · 22-11-2021 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206652#Comment_118206652

That's not good at all, if his GP is not doing them, he should refer him to MVC. The hospital refers me, and to be fair to them, for this at least they have been quick off the mark.

I hope he manages to get one today.

Icantthinkof1 · 22-11-2021 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206541#Comment_118206541

I was told 14 days

_Whimsical_ · 22-11-2021 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206652#Comment_118206652

They mentioned on RTE radio that while they can accommodate people at centres for boosters they can't promise there'll be adequate supply when you get there.

They also had a pharmacist on saying pharmacists are beginning to give the booster today and you can ring your local one to make an appointment for this wk. Might be better for your dad to have an appointment than to be standing in a queue at a centre.

Good luck.

Wibbs · 22-11-2021 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206494#Comment_118206494

Not quite. Coronaviruses mutate at much slower rates than flu viruses and so far the part of the virus targeted by the vaccines hasn't to any great degree. What has happened are mutations that allow the Delta variant for example to be more infectious. The other issue is the vaccines/immune system don't appear to keep their efficacy for long. Though it depends on which study you read on that.

Secondly the "breeding grounds" that you speak of exist in both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. The levels are lower in the vaccinated, but because the vaccines are quite leaky the vaccinated can still get infected and spread the virus to others and it could be argued that leaky vaccines administered in the middle of a pandemic targeting the same spike protein of a virus are a very strong selection pressure on the virus to evolve around them.

Dempo1 · 22-11-2021 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118205651#Comment_118205651

Why the need for Rudeness, completely uncalled for, I asked a civil question and feel the answer not only explained what was happening but made sense.

Mad_maxx · 22-11-2021 6:24pm

anyone here who has received their two shots but who has decided against getting a booster ?

22-11-2021 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204803#Comment_118204803

It could be that your booster is moderna

Those getting a moderna booster regardless of what vaccine they got before just get a half dose,I've read

Dempo1 · 22-11-2021 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207221#Comment_118207221

Highly unlikely, I got 2 dose Pfizer Vacinne, I wasn't aware moderna was even being used for boosters 🤔 I certainly would be concerned if a different Vacinne was being used for booster purposes

22-11-2021 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207237#Comment_118207237

Moderna and Pfizer are being used for boosters and getting a different one to your original also approved

is_that_so · 22-11-2021 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207324#Comment_118207324

At the moment it looks to be all Pfizer.

Dempo1 · 22-11-2021 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207324#Comment_118207324

I was not aware of this, I intend to clarify this in the AM

NSAman · 22-11-2021 7:02pm

Despite being called an anti-vaxxer many times in these threads. now with CDC opening up vaccine boosters to all.... Have my appointment on Wednesday morning for the J&J booster.

Will let you all know how it goes.

Stay safe!

22-11-2021 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207324#Comment_118207324

Aye,moderna supplies are small

But the key point is mixing vaccines is safe

I'd personally prefer moderna as a top up,booster or whatever semantics is used as it's slowest to wane from the studies I've seen

22-11-2021 7:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207372#Comment_118207372

Yeah I was just making you aware of that

I mean AstraZeneca vaccinated will be getting Pfizer or moderna as will j&j

Thats mixing,it's EMA and niac approved

Moderna is definitely a half dose as a 3rd and yes mixing is approved

You're very likely to be getting Pfizer again because moderna is so rare in Ireland

The phrase top up is probably just a variation of the word booster,your gp used

Dempo1 · 22-11-2021 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207401#Comment_118207401

Thanks for that, I honestly wasn't aware moderna being used, personally I've nothing against it, but would rather be using the one Vacinne if that makes sense. I'm not doubting other vacinnes, just a personal feeling. I do however know 2 people who reacted badly to AZ but to be fair, both have underlying health issues.

Cluedo Monopoly · 22-11-2021 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207372#Comment_118207372

Most will get Pfizer as a booster irrespective of what their original vaccine was. Mixed vaccines are approved.

bloopy · 22-11-2021 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118205626#Comment_118205626

Top up and Three Dose Vaccine is language that allows for Booster down the line.

Why use the Booster tag now when it can be used later.

Marketing.

Wibbs · 22-11-2021 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207182#Comment_118207182

I decided on the J&J one shot, but as it stands after reviewing various studies on things I'll not get an mRNA booster. If a viralvector* booster like J&J is on the cards as a choice, then I would line up in the morning. Well, not quite in the morning as I only got the vaccine in September. I also had the pox itself last February, so going on research again, chance are high that having both the "natural" infection and recovered from that(obvs 😁) and getting the vaccine which was essentially a "booster" in of itself, I'm likely golden for quite a while yet. I've also been very much exposed to the pox as a close contact on two occasions since and came back negative on a PCR, so...

*one problem with the viralvector vaccines is an individual can become immune to the virus used as the vector so subsequent boosters may not take as well. That said there are some promising vaccines in the pipeline.

Danno · 22-11-2021 11:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204728#Comment_118204728

Follow the document trail and you'll find that they are basing this decision on just 113 Americans with an average age of 68. Top quality research there 🙄

Atlantic Dawn · 23-11-2021 4:40am

My main concerns are only a fraction of the planet has been vaccinated first time around, now here we go with a booster. I've no desire to be at a stage where I have to be vaccinated every 6 months just to live on the earth, I'd rather take my chances than being some class of a long term science experiment where the odds would be 98% plus on my side without any vaccine, simply being vaccinated now to protect the dead and dying group in society is starting to look absolutely crazy.

patnor1011 · 23-11-2021 7:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209128#Comment_118209128

This. Not to mention that no matter how many vaccines and boosters one take there is no escaping of getting covid. With so many cases around it will happen rather sooner than later anyway. We do have plenty of data now showing who is at risk from this disease and these people with 3 or more other serious ailments can maybe even should think about getting vaccine or booster.

Cases of relatively healthy people who died from covid are minuscule, statistically insignificant.

Naturally gained immunity recovering from covid is superior to any current vaccine anyway.

Lumen · 23-11-2021 8:08am

@patnor1011 wrote

Naturally gained immunity recovering from covid is superior to any current vaccine anyway.

Aside from the false equivalence (nobody chooses to get infected) and the lack of scientific consensus, perhaps you'd like to explain how the European countries with the highest case rates over this summer now have the highest death rates.

23-11-2021 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207182#Comment_118207182

I have not "decided against it" myself - and am happy to get one if that is what is required for living a normal life and not being locked out of goods and services. I am also happy to get one when actually good evidence for it's utility is shown to me***.

But otherwise I am not all that pushed to get one. The evidence of waning immunity and efficacy is not actually that convincing. Mostly people are citing evidence for Isarel from a single study - but actually the figures are not even that convincing there. And that is before you consider some problems with the study such as the baseline groups being quite different that they used for comparisons.

I read nearly 10 other studies on the matter while browing around the centre for disease control and there too it was not overwhelming data***.

Even then it is very vague as to what is "waning" per se. The studies vary in their criteria here. Usually falling into two camps. Studies of "all infection rates" and studies of "clinical outcomes". In the former the data showing some waning is a little more convincing than the latter. And as we keep pointing out to the many anti vaxxers who moan about transmission rates - the latter is actually the primary goal of the vaccines.

So yea - entirely open minded on getting a booster and nothing against one at all. Just not compelled or motivated all that much right now. Leave the people who genuinely need one to get them and I will amble in when resources exceed demand and evidence is more compelling.

*** full disclosure I am about 2 weeks behind the literature on it at this point :) So if anything more convincing has come out more recently I have not seen it.

23-11-2021 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209447#Comment_118209447

Theres no issue with supply

Its just some of the staff at mvc's were returned back to hospitals so it's taking a while to ramp up distribution

When you get the text.. Go

Wibbs · 23-11-2021 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209791#Comment_118209791

You seem to have entirely missed the rest of his post and reasonings behind him not being pushed to get a booster. I'd agree with him having read similar studies. There is a lot of contradictory stuff around boosters coming out lately.

is_that_so · 23-11-2021 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209857#Comment_118209857

Think that poster is in the US.

Multipass · 23-11-2021 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207182#Comment_118207182

Yes, I had neurological symptoms after the 2nd Moderna shot and I’m scared that those will be worse next time. There doesn’t seem to be any data or advice on this, so I’m going to wait. The fact that the booster is only a half dose seems like an admission that the original dose was probably too high. Pfizer was a smaller dose than Moderna and anecdotally seems to have had less side effects.

23-11-2021 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209829#Comment_118209829

Thats because I think its silly to apply scepticism to boosters and like wait for a few months whilst every day you run the risk of getting the damn virus

Giving more credence to them doing nothing versus doing a lot in the presence of a currently rampant virus seems doubly silly to me when it runs the risk of over running our health service and curbing our normal lives again with restrictions

Lumen · 23-11-2021 11:41am

@[Deleted User] wrote

The evidence of waning immunity and efficacy is not actually that convincing. Mostly people are citing evidence for Isarel from a single study - but actually the figures are not even that convincing there. And that is before you consider some problems with the study such as the baseline groups being quite different that they used for comparisons.

I think it's fairly clear and obvious that a third dose will generate an immune response; your concerns about groups being different are possibly overcome by this study

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211030/Largest-real-world-study-evaluates-the-effectiveness-of-third-booster-dose-of-COVID-19-vaccine.aspx

These individuals were carefully matched 1:1 with 728,321 individuals who had received only two shots of the BNT162b2 vaccine at least five months prior. The matching was based on an extensive set of demographic, geographic and health-related attributes associated with risk of infection, risk of severe disease, health status and health seeking behavior.

However we obviously don't know how long that boost lasts. I guess we should see data out of Israel over the next few months given how much boosting they've done to date. At the moment they're seeing a balance between boosting and waning and only just managing to keep R below 1.

https://twitter.com/__Shalom___/status/1461077895326146570

I guess I'll be eligible for a booster around January time and expect to take it up unless something terrifying comes out about adverse reactions in the meantime.

Boosters

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