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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Economics101


    With reference to Cookiemunster's pic on #5622, why is there not a parallel taxiway alongside all of the new runway? Instead, the taxiway coming from the 10L end kinks to the right and then crosses 16/24 at about a 90-degree angle. Doesn't seem to make for the easiest path to/from the 10L end



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    It’s apparently to ensure safe crossing the north South runway.

    Apparently it’s a Rule that crossing runways that could be active is best done at a 90 degree angle .

    Visibility and safety…. If you will


    i think that’s the reason



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The crossing comment above is correct, and there is also a requirment to avoid compromising the glide slope signal on 16, if they go in front of the aerial array, which can be seen in the loop on the western side of the runway, that can distort the signal being broadcast, and if an aircraft was to then be held short of 16/34, that could make it impossible to allow a landing for an aircraft using the 16 ILS until the "sterile" area has been cleared.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    The latest Google Earth imagery gives a very good overview also. It looks to me as though the new taxiway M will be the only one at Dublin that crosses 16-34 at a 90-degree angle, by the way. I see also that the old "Iona strip" has been removed and that the SAR helicopters now reach the runway via a connecting taxiway W4 to the Venair ramp and to 16-34 from there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    I live under the flight path and to be honest you get use to it after a while, There was a new estate built up tbe road from me and I remember people who moved into the estate giving out in the pub about the noise of landing/takeoffs.

    There was also that PBP clowns giving out about the airport operations, Think the councillor was a teacher which is scary considering the role the airport plays.

    Regarding imports/exports tourism at the time pre CV19. Also this née noise regulator wonder is there any political party appointments on the board.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Economics101


    I can see the point about not compromising operations or the ILS on Runway 16, but 16/34 would be inactive about 95% of the time in which the dog-leg taxiway would be a bit of a pain 95% of the time. The "missing" bit of the parallel taxiway could surely be closed if 16/34 were active.



  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    EASA recommendations are for taxiways to cross runways at 90 degree angles so crews can check left and right easily before crossing and thus hopefully reduce runway incursions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,426 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Makes far more sense to cross at 90 degree's, even if as stated, the taxi way wouldn't be used when 16/34 is in operation. As has happened in the past, incidents can often when that 'once in a million' situation occurs and sure as night follows day, people will start asking why wasn't it do this way from the start.



  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Phen2206


    Yes you're right that 16/34 is seldom used but I've seen days where 16 was in use due to strong southeasterly winds and because its also a lot shorter than 28L/10R, heavy aircraft still having to depart of 10R anyway because 16 was too short. So on days like that if 16 was in use and 10L the only alternative for departure, you could have aircraft needing to taxi along that "missing bit" and potentially interfering with the ILS signal for 16. Granted yes maybe only 1 day in the year but still thats enough potential danger to justify a dogleg in the taxiway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Dunston


    What residential areas along the coast are going to have noise increases due this new runway?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Phen2206



    If you were to draw the extended runway centreline out from each end there's not a lot in terms of built up areas on the west end but if the departures that are designed for 10L don't include some sort of early turn then Portmarnock will be right in the firing line.

    I'd imagine the SIDs that are published in the end for 10L will attempt to avoid the built up areas but I'd be fairly sure any right turn after departure (to go south of Portmarnock) can be ruled out because it would conflict with SIDs/missed approaches from 10R. So the only option aside from straight ahead would be a left turn over Malahide/Seabury/Swords which isn't ideal either. Will be very interesting to see what the arrivals and departures will be like next year.

    I did hear that 28L will likely mostly continue to be the landing runway when winds are westerly as so there would be minimal added noise disruption from departures on 28R since there are no built up areas on the extended centreline.

    When the easterly runways are in use I did hear that the existing 10R will be prioritised for departures, probably to minimise any new noise effect on Portmarmock/Malahide as mentioned above. Maybe aircraft will have to specially request 10L for departure if they are heavy etc.

    Post edited by Phen2206 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Just wondering how prioritizing 10L for easterly departures would minimize new noise effect on Portmarnock /Malahide ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    As someone who lives under the runway 16 departure path (two miles away, and I know it is not frequently used) I find it interesting to see how much fuss a middle-class area, almost four miles from the departure end of 10L, has managed to generate about the use of the new runway. There are consultation documents from 2016 on the DAA website that show the types of SID being considered from 10L, which appear to factor in a 15-degree left turn as a common first manoeuvre shortly after take-off. No doubt more detailed work has been done since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    I have no inside info but would suppose that on departures from. 10L with a fairly soon left turn would bring them over the coastline over the low rock about half way between Malahide and Portmarnock.

    This would be over area of least housing density in that area, I would suggest?



  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Phen2206


    Apologies yes typo on my part, above post edited, I mean no new noise if they continue to use 10R for departures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    No worries Pee, I was just wondering ……. Thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,987 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    What's also laughable is that the original plan for this runway, exactly the same as what has been built except 3500m, is well over 50 years old.

    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,732 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It's a condition of the planning that the runways be prioritised for landings and take-offs as you outline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,505 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    The existing published Cat C SIDs and above off 10R do not allow an early right turn to the south until you are over Howth harbour and well above 3,000ft at which point the thrust has been reduced and the aircraft more than likely cleaned up which reduces their noise foot print significantly. All departures must meet ICAO noise abatement regs which are monitored and fines issued for infractions. The only time we would head south across Sutton or take an immediate northerly turn across Malahide would be for safety reasons such as weather or traffic avoidance.

    The problems with tight turns immediately after departure is that aircraft lose climb performance so its a trade off in SID design. There are also design limitations and considerations need to be made to avoid conflicts with the traffic using the other runway eg: parallel or missed approaches plus arrivals and departures.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    For clarity the actual physical taxiway is the obstacle for the glidepath to 16 not a vehicle(which would be an additional problem). The glideslope is projected down on to a flat "earth" surface/pad and reflects upwards at the desired angle. Placing a taxiway there will cause multiple distortion issues.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    10L will NOT be used for departures. Except for A380's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    When aircraft noise is massively reduced, will airports operate 24 hours ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    Many already do, Dublin for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭xper


    If you zoom right in on the resurfaced areas of 16/34, you can see that they have installed what appear to be centreline light fittings for right-angle turn offs to future taxiways opposite Links 2, 3 and 6. Given that, a bit surprising that reconstruction of the existing W1,2,3 taxiway intersections have not been reorientated to 90 degrees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Is Dublin Airport gonna be like Heathrow a runway for takeoff and a runway for landing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    Comparing LHR to DUB is a bit like chalk and cheese. LHR controllers are approved for simultaneous approaches and departures. Granted they aren't used all that often but it can dig them out of a hole when required. As far as I am aware the IAA has no plans to train up its staff to this level.

    Be interesting to see if the IAA will allow visual sidesteps/approaches during the day. Seems silly if the departure runway is empty and closest to your stand not to allow an aircraft in good visual conditions to shoot an approach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    No but what I mean is are they using the new runway just for landings and runway 28 for takeoffs or what



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,732 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    The existing runway will continue to be the priority runway for landings from the east and takeoffs towards the east.

    The new runway will be the priority runway for landings from the west and takeoffs towards the west.



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