Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Quite - however even when it did pop in to existence it applied to certain devolved matters only and if we are going to talk about things it doesn't apply to, then I don't see a particular reason to start with things that it doesn't apply to after it exists only.

To add: there is no chance that the EU will agree to having a unionist veto to the NIP. The UK already proposed & failed to introduce this back in 2019.

the existence of NI doesn't require cross community consent

Isn't that the point the other poster was making; the existence of NI doesn't have cross community consent yet it exists, so could the NIP.

Because they know that people will vote to keep it, and with the protocol, the NI economy will be lifted, and outperform much of the UK.

Currently they are one of the poorest regions of the UK - if not the poorest - the protocol is changing that.

It would be an example of a part of the UK doing well by retaining EU rights and priviliges, while the rest of the UK is in the doldrums. Who can they blame for that?

Good article here from the BBC directly linking the so called migrant "crisis" with Brexit.

An incredible statistic in it that the UK may well have net 'migration' at the moment i.e. more people leaving the country than arriving.......something you'd normally expect to see in a nation in deep recession. The Brexit brigade and their supporters really know how to mess a country up.

The UK is a first world country with a population of 65m. For it to have net 'migration' at the moment is little short of disastrous, with long term implications. It's debatable whether it could have sustained itself for the last 50 years at least without net immigration.

I agree. I spent ages over there trying to explain the importance of the pensioner to taxpayer ratio. They have no interest in understanding this because "immigants bad"

“It doesn't matter if today's 20 & 30 year olds are priced out of owning a property or raising a family since there are plenty of Eastern Europeans coming over who are already adults so they impose no such costs. You put them to work on the various minimum wage jobs in retail, care and hospitality while those with degrees aim for and get better paid jobs.”

Pre-Covid, sure. Post-Covid, coinciding with post-(actual) Brexit with working visas indexed on earnings, not anymore.

That is why there is, currently, a million vacancies going for the asking with no takers in the UK. And no takers for the government’s sponsored/facilitated visa initiatives for fruit pickers, HGV drivers and so many more.

There’s literally tons of articles and interviews by now, that have been drip-dripping since the beginning of the year and are now getting increasingly frequent, wherein UK employers in the agrifood sector, social care, catering etc. are all consistently giving the same evidence (“they all went, and now they’re not coming back”) and consistently giving the same forecast (“we’ll be folding in 2022 if nothing changes”).

So either the UK government ups minimum wage above £26000 (working visa threshold), or Brit employers up wages to that level without statutory pressure, or market offers contract to the fittest survivors. In all cases, Brit consumers foot the bill or cut their cloth.

When the Brightest and the Best can go work practically anywhere, and all you can offer them is world beating inflation, shortages, resentment - and for academics, a disconnect from the funding the rest of Europe can get - they will go anywhere else.

I more meant the other direction - every single time I've been in GB since 2016 it has slowly become less and less welcoming to any form of outsider.

We’ve booked our Chunnel crossing w/c 21/12 to spend Xmas with my M-I-L ooop’North. Might drive back with her, yet.

It will be interesting to witness how things have changed ‘on the ground’, given we used to live around there for around 2 decades and haven’t seen the place for about 2 years now, between Covid and travel restrictions. Also interesting to see how things go with the dog (now on a FR pet passport (used to be GB), and nothing changed acc.to all info I’ve checked).

I’m a little apprehensive about driving over there with Luxembourg plates on, somehow. Expecting a little more aggro than usual, similar sentiment to L1011’s post.

Still, less apprehensive than going through customs when we come back to the Continent (already told everyone on the UK side minded to gift us anything, to keep and give us the receipts). At least, I’ve had the sense to book the return still this side of 01/01/22!

feels incredibly short sighted that the fast track was built around awards. I'm dont know a lot about science research but the impression I get is when you are at the point that you are winning awards for your work you're well established with a university or other entity. I feel such fast track quotas might have been better served giving them to the British universities with the idea of encouraging talent from leaving with the high potential of becoming future award winners.

But that lacks the same wow now success media buzz that this government thrives on.

I mentioned here yesterday that EU migrant workers have been told that they are unwanted and unwelcome in England and are nothing but a burden on the country. Plus, much of the English population thinks this, not just the Tory regime. The message has gone out all around Europe, loud and clear. How GB can recover from this is anyone's guess - it could take many years for the country to shake off the image of being a xenophobic and hostile place for outsiders.

Well if they do that they may as well just go ahead and rejoin the Single Market. Their unwillingness to allow freedom of movement was the biggest impediment to them remaining in it. They cut off their nose to spite their face.

Personally, I think that is ultimately where the UK will end up in the long run. Rejoining the EU would be too much of an about face for them so they'll instead join the club of Norway/Iceland/Switzerland in having Single Market access whilst not being EU members.