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Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I’ve read a lot over the years where a generation were “saddled with debt” due to the bailing out of the banks. I’ve never seen the tangible affect of this on day to day life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    This. Be careful what you wish for.

    It'll cost a pretty penny to furnish a house even cheaply for a renter without much cash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Borzoi


    Yes, the comparison with rents in Berlin.

    As with most German lets, you rent an unfurnished white box for usually an unlimited duration. And when you're finished, it's handed back in the same condition, generally including freshly painted back white. You take the kitchen that you put in with you, or sometimes you can sell to the next tenant. This keeps the direct cost of renting considerably lower than here.

    The whole enables long term rental tenancies, unlike our model, which derives from short term rental for when people had just started working, and before they bought their own home. This model is broken, as more people are renting longer, but legally the likes of the RTB (and poloticians) insist that there is no problem with the model of how we rent.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The idea of an unfurnished plebe is you can't leave a place filled with rubbish and broken furniture and walls destroyed. You have to hand it back bare walls newly painted. So no damage and ready for the next tenant.

    The idea of the landlord having to move furniture in and out on a whim can only have come from someone who knows nothing about the business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    You wanted an example I gave you one. You can add Property tax to that too and the water charges if people didn't stand up to it.

    Don't forget the HSE was crippled which effects any healthcare you might have gotten and no new housing built which has lead to our current problems.

    I'm sure there is more if I think about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    @ManionDebt slowly strangles economic activity because money that could have gone towards starting new businesses or existing businesses has been diverted to repayments. So it acts like a millstone around our collective neck.

    The debt acts as an anchor on economic growth.

    Enough debt accumulation will bleed out the standard of living over time but this happens so slowly and imperceptibly that most people do not make the connection between the debt and how they've gradually become poorer.

    I remember an economist on an RTE documentary in 2010 saying that the younger generation had not yet realised how poor they are.

    Let me give you a specific concrete example. In the US many millions of people paying back large student loans are devoting their lives to it. If there was a debt jubilee tomorrow all those people would freed up for other economic involvements - businesses, trades, more flexibility in their jobs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Sorry quoted Manion by accident. Phone version of boards fail



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I remember somebody commenting at the time that with the moment that was soaked up by the banks Ireland could have had a space programme but sure at least the bond holders were happy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    I am not saying FF/FG are not to blame

    I am just saying the issue will not be resolved at the moment because the opposition want the housing crisis to stay as long as possible because it helps their chances to get into government. Hence why they object to every housing they possible can. If they can block it they will and they will continue to do so while everyone doesn't say anything.

    Central Bank fell asleep at the wheel and hence why you had a crash with people having mortgages way above what they could pay, this nearly crashed the entire banking system in Ireland. They haven't made it difficult, they have made it the way it should have been all along. 100% mortgages should never have been an option for anyone.

    If you want change and change quickly, then any houses been built should not be held up by any government party because of political tactics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    We’ve been in our rental house for 8 years and our landlady has never raised the rent. We are paying well below market value. So grateful as it’s allowed us save for a deposit to buy our own house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    I'm so happy for you. I wish there were more people like this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Why? when landlords couldn't let properties and struggled to pay mortgages I didn't see tenants all over Ireland coming together to help them out, that was only a few years ago.

    Now the tables have turned and suddenly landlords are supposed to help out tenants? who at every turn will try screw over the landlord anyway.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    That is great for you and I am sure your LL is happy that you are there. However you said that you are saving for a deposit and so will move out. The next tenant (who could be an absolute gowler) will now benefit from your good tenancy. The LL has let themselves get into a position that they may now be stuck with a problem tenant paying a bargain basement rent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik



    I find it hard to believe it wasnt actually designed to get rents up and REITs in and a nice tax wedge for revenue in at the same time, while proclaiming they were doing it for the common man.

    Kind of like electricity prices had to increase to get outsiders interested and then they kept going up.

    Back when they brought in rent controls it was as obvious as the nose on your face that it was going to drive rents up. There were hundreds of studies from places where rent controls came in that prices only go up.

    They had lots of opportunities to reverse it, but hammered more nails in to get rents up again.

    Total farce and a total hoodwink of the Irish tax payer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove


    I very much doubt your pushy LL story. The only push at the moment is for to resign from being LL coz its not worth it. You need a bit more than unsubstantiated "Ive seen" stories



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    not only that you can be sure that landlord has no sinking fund for major repairs on the building. When they bring in a new rule on standards the landlord won't be able to rent it out without a massive cost. To an extent landlords are lucky there is a housing crisis as it stopped the govenrnment bringing in a minimum BER rating for rent as was their original plan and on the back burner at the moment. I have external insulation and triple glazing on a property. That is better than my own house.I am actually lucky a tenant is leaving as she finally got on the housing list where she is due a property now only been there 35 years and pays below half the market rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Its the truth. Take it or leave it.

    This is a pseudonymous message board, not an RTB investigation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,895 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Landlords who shoot themselves in the foot and forever devalue their own property by not charging the market rate?

    I know that sounds awful and I'd love if people could have lower rents, but sadly, the way the government have put rental increase caps in place, it's impossible to 'be nice' as a landlord at he moment without severely damaging your own financial position.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    You seemed really triggered by the fact I'm happy about this is situation. That a Landlord and tenant have mutual beneficial relationships and how I wish this was the norm for everyone. Very odd reaction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Renting privately ought not to be a strictly temporary arrangement for most, as you suggest. People's financial circumstances differ. Some are in poorly paid employment, some are unable to work due to illness and there is a general shortage of housing. Take the HAP. Are you aware that the average waiting period for a single person with no dependants to secure council accommodation is twelve years? Why would any private landlord have reservations about accepting HAP tenants? They would not be losing out financially compared to tenanting those working full time and the system for weeding out potential troublesome tenants is more strictly enforced by the local authorities these days. With regard to property the Irish are greedy and have this obsession about owning their own homes - in stark contrast to continental countries. Ultimately, it is this demand for a non-existent supply that drives up prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,895 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I suppose it's the way you're blatantly skipping over the fact that it's really only beneficial to the tenant, the landlord is losing money and in future, won't be able to raise the rent higher than the yearly cap - meaning the property will forever be stuck lagging far behind the market rate as a rental unit and will lose value as a result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭jface187


    We don't know the situation. But the OP & LL are happy. Surely we can all agree that a situation where a tenant can pay the rent and save money for a deposit plus the Landlord is happy, is something that we all want to be the norm?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    In a perfect world you are absolutely correct however where a HAP recipient defaults and you get an order against them they are less likely to have any assets of significant worth to give a sheriff also the local authorities during the last downturn reduced the payments without notice a couple of times and effectively told LLs to FO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Triggered? seriously

    Just pointing out when landlords struggled I didn't see any tenants creating a thread offering to give them more money. Now the tables have turned it seems tenants want landlords to reduce rents to suit them. Nothing triggered about that.

    As people pointed out above the LL with the reduced rent is just going to end up at a loss at the end of the day, I am sure the current tenant who is gaining from the reduced rent won't offer a penny to help them out either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,895 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Of course, nobody is disagreeing with that. However it's a pretty uncommon situation - for 'more' situations to arise like this (which you'd like to see), most landlords would have to take a financial hit, basically redirect their income back into the tenants bank account instead to help them pay for a deposit.

    If that's what a landlord wants to do, fair enough - it's not really how businesses function and stay afloat though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭spaceHopper



    I've no problem if a tenants circumstance change and they need to apply for rent allowance or HAP, it's just that using private rental accommodation for social housing is broken, it bad value for the state and tax payer and it insecure for tenants. It's causing more problems that it solves, we should have restarted state backed building of social housing 15 or 20 years ago.


    Lots of LL's have had bad experiences with HAP and social welfare tenants, look at it another way, if it was such a great experience they wouldn't have to legislate to make it mandatory.

    The average waiting period is my concern as I said renting should be short term in nature, there shouldn't be a long waiting list. All the private LL's in the country isn't going to fix it. The root cause is not enough social housing and that's what needs to be fixed.

    There are plenty of threads here where HAP and council tenants have stopped paying and the council won't deal with the LL. Also a few where the council rented a house from a LL then as soon as there was a problem the council walked away and left the LL to deal with the tenata when there was a contract between the LL and the Council and not the LL and tenant.

    With stories like that if I didn't know the tenant I wouldn't risk it.

    Our obsession with home ownership come from our history, a lot of families suffered at the hands of English LL's and it's lead to a desire to own a home nobody can evict you from. Also renting in the EU is properly regulated, the way it's gotten so out of hand here is down to our government and I'd never advise anybody to rent for life, it's to risky



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You aren't aware of landlord's experience dealing with state payments. If the tenant decides not to fill in the paper work along the way the rent stops getting paid. The tenant doesn't care as they know how hard it is to kick them out and drag their feet just to annoy the landlord. They have done this to elderly relatives who let them do what they liked. More than once to more than one landlord.

    When rent dropped the government reduced HAP and made landlords accept it even with signed leases. Then they capped rent increases while increase taxes and expenses. Why would any landlord trust the government on state paid rent is the real question?

    Does any of that let you see why a landlord wouldn't want HAP?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove




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