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    #1262
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212312#Comment_118212312

    Well there's a cutting riposte of great value. Please point out the inaccuracies in my post. The mRNA delivery system is a new biotech. Oh but it's been going on for over a decade! Yep and with a tiny number of exceptions moving to human trials wasn't even risked because of the serious adverse side effects in animal models. So funding started to wander off and the companies involved looked to vaccine production even though that's a low return sector of the industry because it was seen that the lower dosage and fewer doses overall would mitigate the side effects. Link from 2017 around Moderna.

    There are no long term studies on mRNA therapy "in the wild". There can't be when actual human use is 18 months old. I have never claimed there will be adverse reactions. I have more than once said my personal opinion would be that the risk is low. However my claim also can't be backed up in the long term. J&J had the least reported sides of the main vaccines. Link from Yale Medicine here: [J&J] has had noticeably milder side effects than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, according to the FDA report released in late February.

    All of the above are accurate statements and I can certainly add more citation links from different sources if you're so inclined to read them. I can even do so drunk if you like. Just need to find a bottle of vino.

    I am no "anti vaxxer". Not by a long shot. I am vaccinated against Covid 19. I have urged naysayers I know to get vaccinated. Vaccines along with background "natural" immunity(particularly in kids), and even a possible waning virulence in the virus itself(link) will get us out of this mess. Keeping our guard up until that happens will speed things up(if we could search this new site you'd note I was 100% behind masks in enclosed spaces when few enough were and were listening to the wildly contradictory advice from government). Boosters are a part of that, especially with better vaccines coming down the pike. I quite simply want a choice and a choice for all in which vaccine/booster we take(and am quite willing to pay for it). If that's a radical crazy notion then call me radical and crazy.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212314#Comment_118212314

    On the melodramatics front, Mr Pot, may I introduce Mr Kettle. Never mind why in god's name would you construe anything on here as "health advice"? I merely gave my opinion. Again for the hard of reading; I'm not anti vaccination, nor anti booster, I simply want to be able to make an informed choice over which one I take. Simples. Or it should be.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1263
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Sure, I'm familiar with your concerns about mRNA vaccine composition.

    The US have vaccine choice I think. Or had, because I think the FDA have approved only mRNA vaccines as boosters.

    Is that true, and if so, why?



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    #1264
    ddarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213258#Comment_118213258

    No not true. In the US you can get a booster of the same as you got originally, so JJ can get JJ, Pfizer -Pfizer etc. if you got JJ you can opt for mRNA and if you got mRNA you can choose either as an option as well. So if you got mRNA you can’t get JJ (link below says you can but pharmacies administering it say no). This is done 6 months after getting your vaccine course.

    the additional dose is only mRNA (so 2 months after completion of the vaccine course)


    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html




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    #1265
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213312#Comment_118213312

    Ah, it seems you're almost right. You can also get Janssen after mRNA according to J&J. The interval is two months after Janssen, otherwise whatever the booster interval is for your primary vaccine.

    https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-booster-shot-authorized-for-emergency-use-by-u-s-fda

    edit: I'm a bit confused by your statement "So if you got mRNA you can’t get JJ".



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    #1266
    ddarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213351#Comment_118213351

    I just looked at a couple of pharmacies in the US and they were saying if you got Pfizer/ Moderna, you couldn’t get JJ as a booster. The CDC site linked does indeed say differently. It could well be that this was fully approved for rollout to all age groups last week and they’ve not updated their systems yet.



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    #1267
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Regardless, it's interesting that they're spacing the booster so close after single shot Janssen. That would make everyone in Ireland who had it eligible now.



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    #1268
    ddarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213389#Comment_118213389

    J&J did a study where they found the double dosage was better (have similar results to the mRNA vaccines). I’d say that the booster is being treated as completing the course per se.

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/21/health/johnson-vaccine-two-doses-booster/index.html




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    #1269
    Ish66
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Ish66


    Will Boosters become an annual thing ? I got mine today and the Doctor said that with the waves here and in Europe we could be boosting for several years until the lifetime vaccine comes along. He could have a point I suppose ?



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    #1270
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212464#Comment_118212464

    I got my booster yesterday, can't understand how so many of your friends can't be bothered, most of the experts, Doctors I have talked to said it is the way to go. I am glad and grateful I got it .



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    #1271
    BruteStock
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    The 6 o clock show had vaccine expert Luke O Neil on again. This time he focused in on kids aged 5 and upwards. He also claims boosters give better immunity than post covid anti-bodies. I had always heard the opposite was true but I guess he's the expert.



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    #1272
    airy fairy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213678#Comment_118213678

    Better immunity, equal immunity, any more immunity than I currently have, I'll take more than nothing at all please!!



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    #1273
    JoChervil
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213480#Comment_118213480

    Well, virus might develop similar strain like in Japan and self destruct itself

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/11/18/national/delta-variant-self-destruction-theory/



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    #1274
    SusanC10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Have the EMA approved Boosters only for Adults (18+) ? Not the 12-18 cohort unless immunocomprimised ?

    Is any Country giving Boosters to Ages 12-18?

    (Not advocating for this - just wondering)



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    #1275
    airy fairy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214267#Comment_118214267

    I wouldn't think so. 12 to 18 approval for the two shot vaccines were only approved in the summer, so I'd imagine it would be the last to be approved as children have only been fully vaccinated since end of Aug/Sept so not even near the 5 to 6 months timeframe that it's recommend for adults.

    Also I think recent studies show high efficiency rates in that cohort with the vaccine.



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    #1276
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214267#Comment_118214267

    The chap I'm aware of who is 15 is immunocompromised and got his booster from his GP

    He'd be a bare 2 months fully vaccinated



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    #1277
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213389#Comment_118213389

    It seems to depend on who and what you read and what one chooses to take from it. See below.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213429#Comment_118213429

    Did you read the article?

    On Lumen's point above, the article doesn't agree: A second study showed people given a booster shot six months or longer after their first dose had a 12-fold increase in antibodies -- compared to a four-fold increase for people who got a second dose at two months. So protection should be stronger if people get boosters later, Dr. Dan Barouch, head of Beth Israel Deaconess' Center for Virology and Vaccine Research, told CNN. "If you wait longer and have boost at six months or later then you likely will have better boost.

    So according to that spacing the second jab to six months or longer gave a threefold increase of effectiveness as measured by antibody levels compared to two months. Yet others are saying J&J one shot people need to get the booster yesterday because their resistance is down to 3% or something. Which is it? For me the latter is very much up for grabs. It's based off a single study, a study that only looked at declining antibodies, not real world increases in hospitalisation, severe illness and death, something the authors acknowledged, but seems to have been missed in media reports and those who didn't read the actual study itself.

    Also note this:

    Our large real-world-evidence and Phase 3 studies confirm that the single-shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine provides strong and long-lasting protection against COVID-19-related hospitalizations," Dr. Mathai Mammen, global head of Janssen Research & Development, said in a statement. Further along in the article another researcher states: A single shot gives robust and durable protection over a substantial period of time of time with minimal evidence of decline,

    Which agrees with the earlier position before talk of boosters came along. Now we have the addition of: "And, when a booster of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is given, the strength of protection against COVID-19 further increases." Something that only started to get talked about after Pfizer was pushing for boosters. So does it give long lasting protection or not?

    All of this is fine, except for Irish recipients of the one J&J who can't currently avail of a second of the same and the only "choice" is one of the mRNA vaccines.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1278
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Irish Janssen recipients can't avail of another dose because it isn't yet approved by the EMA.

    That is likely to change (at least at European level) because J&J have recently submitted a request to the EMA for approval of a booster.



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    #1279
    SusanC10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214425#Comment_118214425

    But Irish Janssen recipients aged 50+ can get a Pfizer shot as a Booster, can't they ?



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    #1280
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214441#Comment_118214441

    Yes



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    #1281
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214441#Comment_118214441

    What if they don't want an mRNA vaccine as a booster? The reasons those who choose the J&J in the first place could influence uptake of boosters. Some likely got it because it was the first offered to them, or it was more convenient to get it in a pharmacy setting rather than a vaccine centre, others because it was a one and done affair. Some will have gone for it specifically because it wasn't an mRNA vaccine. That latter group will be a hard sell for the booster rollout if the only option currently is an mRNA vaccine.

    Personally speaking it was most of the above for me, though it not being an mRNA based vaccine was at the top of that list. Again personally speaking while I was happy to get a vaccine and would be happpy to get another, I will not be going for a booster if my only choice is mRNA.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1282
    SusanC10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214475#Comment_118214475

    Absolutely.

    I was just clarifying that Janssen recipients were eligible for a Pfizer Booster if Aged 50+ and that they don't have to wait for a Janssen Booster



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    #1283
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214498#Comment_118214498

    As it turns out from research on the matter(linked in a previous post), it seems it's better to wait six months or more for a J&J booster as it gives much better results.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1284
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,712 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214475#Comment_118214475

    Medically speaking, there is no reason to offer Janssen anymore, Pfizer is approved as a booster for all vaccines. Hopefully it will happen (diversity of choice is good at the human level, especially for vaccines which are "more optional" than other medicines, i.e. you're unlikely to refuse a cancer drug if your choice wasn't available as it would probably cost you tens of thousands of euro) but it won't really be based on medical need. I've never paid attention to the flu vaccine being administered but I bet there were options available and the one we got was based on cost and supply available more than other factors (though I have seen it be updated "mid season").



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    #1285
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,712 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214520#Comment_118214520

    I think this is becoming dependent on the individual more and the difference between an extra dose of the initial course and a booster, it seems to have been done a bit haphazardly where once they figure out it's safe to do it's on a "what's the harm" basis for people who may have weakened immune systems.

    I'm betting this would also be the case for other vaccines, but the diseases aren't enough of an issue for people to pay attention to it.



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    #1286
    ddarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214520#Comment_118214520

    Also just a note on the US anyone who got janssen more than likely got it at worst in may/ June of this year. So the 2 months is kind of mute. My guess is the FDA is looking at having it be a 2 dose regimen with dosing at 2 months followed up by a booster 6 months later. J&J will have to run another clinical trial for that though, so I don’t see it happening imho.

    in Ireland, is probably the same as well as the over 40s got it (mainly 50-60) and then in the rush students got it early in August where there were supplies available. Even then the numbers are relatively small.



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    #1287
    Azatadine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭Azatadine


    Had Janssen in May. Just had Pfizer booster this morning 🙂. 52 YO.



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    #1288
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214964#Comment_118214964

    There are references to several studies, including the ENSEMBLE 2 study on boosters, in this press release

    https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-announces-real-world-evidence-and-phase-3-data-confirming-strong-and-long-lasting-protection-of-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-in-the-u-s

    These trials take ages. ENSEMBLE 2 goes on for 2-3 years. The mfrs can submit requests for approval whenever they think they have sufficient evidence of safety and efficacy.



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    #1289
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,085 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Not sure if this has been covered already, but apparently there is a minimum 6 month gap between infection and booster. One person I know was offered a booster but after disclosing that they'd had COVID recently was told they'll need to wait until March.



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    #1290
    random_banter
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭random_banter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214777#Comment_118214777

    Diversity of choice is also great when people have different medical needs. E.g. my mother is allergic to a preservative in the Pfizer Vaccine, so she got a Janssen vaccine back in June. She's mid-60's so I'd love to see her get an opportunity to have a booster now, but GP, HSE, etc. have no answers for her, since there is no supply of Janssen here anymore and it's not yet approved as a booster by the EMA anyway (going on what I've read, could be wrong).

    I'm probably more worried about this than her - she's hoping she got enough protection from her first dose to keep her well.



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    #1291
    keno-daytrader
    Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭keno-daytrader


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215026#Comment_118215026

    Just curious did you get it in an MVC or GP? I didnt think MVC's were doing any 50s+ yet?

    ☀️ 6.72kWp ⚡2.52kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



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