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Whistleblower: Maurice McCabe

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    road_high wrote:
    Yea because he could see the euro signs in the distance and the inevitable martyrdom he’d be bestowed by the holier than thou rabble. Far as I’m aware he’s been “off sick†for the last number of years. So rather than do the job he was actually being paid for and signed up to. Like all the false sacred cows that are created in this country what they’ve actually achieved or done amounts to sweet FA. The real heroes in the Gardai are the ones doing their jobs daily (the vast majority) and making a real difference in tackling crime.


    Pathetic post tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    road_high wrote: »
    Yea because he could see the euro signs in the distance and the inevitable martyrdom he’d be bestowed by the holier than thou rabble. Far as I’m aware he’s been “off sick” for the last number of years. So rather than do the job he was actually being paid for and signed up to. Like all the false sacred cows that are created in this country what they’ve actually achieved or done amounts to sweet FA. The real heroes in the Gardai are the ones doing their jobs daily (the vast majority) and making a real difference in tackling crime.
    Christ, I really hope you're not a guard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    givyjoe wrote: »
    Christ, I really hope you're not a guard.

    If he is he's another one that needs to be given the high_road.


  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    road_high wrote: »
    Yea because he could see the euro signs in the distance and the inevitable martyrdom he’d be bestowed by the holier than thou rabble. Far as I’m aware he’s been “off sick” for the last number of years. So rather than do the job he was actually being paid for and signed up to. Like all the false sacred cows that are created in this country what they’ve actually achieved or done amounts to sweet FA. The real heroes in the Gardai are the ones doing their jobs daily (the vast majority) and making a real difference in tackling crime.

    Euro signs you say.

    Do the job he was paid to do you say.

    Well in terms of the first point, you’re assumping McCabe had a crystal ball and could see the future.

    And in relation to your second point, he did just that. And An Garda are much better for it.

    But if you’d prefer to return to a corrupt police force, well so be it :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    road_high wrote: »
    Yea because he could see the euro signs in the distance and the inevitable martyrdom he’d be bestowed by the holier than thou rabble. Far as I’m aware he’s been “off sick” for the last number of years. So rather than do the job he was actually being paid for and signed up to. Like all the false sacred cows that are created in this country what they’ve actually achieved or done amounts to sweet FA. The real heroes in the Gardai are the ones doing their jobs daily (the vast majority) and making a real difference in tackling crime.




    ...and we'll just ignore the ones that abuse their power, make fake reports, persecute people and other gardai etc and so on. Grand plan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭wonga77


    You can tell the disgruntled guards a mile off...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    wonga77 wrote: »
    You can tell the disgruntled guards a mile off...

    It is worrying to see this attitude from gardai. How can they be annoyed when he reported 3 Gardai for turning up drunk at a suicide and were drink driving, the driver should have been breathalised and the suspended. As for the other things he exposed he was correct to do so.

    If you swear to uphold the law then ALL members of AGS need to abibe by that and not ala carte way if applying it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    wonga77 wrote: »
    You can tell the disgruntled guards a mile off...

    I love how he throws in a grenade and then runs away. Cowardly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭wonga77


    I love how he throws in a grenade and then runs away. Cowardly.

    ??? Its fairly obvious reading the different posters comments. Do I need to spell it out for you? Im not the first person to point it out on this thread


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    wonga77 wrote: »
    ??? Its fairly obvious reading the different posters comments. Do I need to spell it out for you? Im not the first person to point it out on this thread


    I think Sycamore Tree was agreeing with you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    wonga77 wrote: »
    I love how he throws in a grenade and then runs away. Cowardly.

    ??? Its fairly obvious reading the different posters comments. Do I need to spell it out for you? Im not the first person to point it out on this thread
    I was talking about road_high.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    road_high wrote: »
    Yea because he could see the euro signs in the distance and the inevitable martyrdom he’d be bestowed by the holier than thou rabble.
    I assume that you're trolling here but there was never an indication that he would be successful in his actions until towards the end. In fact there was a strong probability that he would end up with his name in tatters leading to him hanging from a tree because of it.
    So your theory that he was doing it for the money is a stupid ill-informed one.
    road_high wrote: »
    Far as I’m aware he’s been “off sick” for the last number of years. So rather than do the job he was actually being paid for and signed up to.
    In fairness, sick leave due to stress in the workplace is quite common. Your assumption that he was off dossing is deliberately disingenuous.
    However, his prominence is directly attributed to him trying to do his job and his peers and superiors deliberately preventing him from doing this.
    road_high wrote: »
    Like all the false sacred cows that are created in this country what they’ve actually achieved or done amounts to sweet FA. The real heroes in the Gardai are the ones doing their jobs daily (the vast majority) and making a real difference in tackling crime.
    in terms of the text I've made bold, now I know that you're trolling.
    Anyhow, do the real heroes in your view include the gardai who were drunk at a suicide scene driving a garda car? Does it include the gardai that covered up serious crimes, helped quash penalty points, etc?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,450 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    In fairness, sick leave due to stress in the workplace is quite common. Your assumption that he was off dossing is deliberately disingenuous.
    However, his prominence is directly attributed to him trying to do his job and his peers and superiors deliberately preventing him from doing this.

    At one point during the documentary he (or his wife) mentioned how he had pointed out the tree that he planned to hang himself from. I don't think that was a joke or something disingenuous...


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    dulpit wrote: »
    At one point during the documentary he (or his wife) mentioned how he had pointed out the tree that he planned to hang himself from. I don't think that was a joke or something disingenuous...
    Hence my point (and my earlier reference to the tree)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,450 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Hence my point (and my earlier reference to the tree)

    Oh ya, I'm agreeing with you here...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    I'm not close to anyone in the Garda but I think that certain posters on here love to vent at them and as someone already said "tar them all with the same brush".
    I think that's silly and vindictive. The vast majority of dealings I have had with them have been very positive. I live close to the border and meet them regularly in my travels.
    There are bad apples in every job.
    My opinion and I have expressed it here very often is that you have to separate policing from politicians. That's where most of the trouble stems. They can weed out the lower ranks quite easily but not the top ranks who are politically promoted.

    I don't understand your comment,
    We are all human, but bad things happen in every walk of life


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Why did our wonderful politicians introduce a scheme that allowed Garda officers to cancel penalty points? The answer of course is that is how Ireland operates.
    I wonder how mant T.D.s sent letters to the local Superintendent seeking to have points squashed. They have no problem sending a letter of character to a judge for rapists and child abusers so penalty points would seem harmless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Link is behind a paywall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's well worth a read giving Noirin O'Sullivan's side of the story.

    Good work by Colm Keena one of Ireland's best journalists.

    Bear in mind that the IT has to pay it's way.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭crossman47


    It shows the dangers of politicians jumping into a case. Mick Wallace and Claire Daly behaved appallingly. At one point Daly said to a whistleblower (who was wrong) "Don't worry. We'll get them in the end". FG don't come out well either- they sacrificed O'Sullivan and Frances Fitzgerald in the face of the political and media onslaught.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dail privilege is a dangerous thing, any one of us can fall foul to any politician saying whatever they want. No repercussions.

    Most politicians have enough sense to be sure that what they're saying is true, however we are seeing more and more politicians who just want to shock, jump on any bandwagon without actually getting to the truth first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Parliamentary privilege is an important element of a functioning democracy.

    The right of an elected representative to speak in parliament without fear of any repercussion is fundamental.

    The biggest threat to that privilege is it's abuse by politicians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It’s always open to abuse though. That’s the big problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,500 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Not a paywall as such, but a limit on the number of IT articles you can read each week. Try opening it in incognito mode or a different browser.

    Would good work not have included asking Noirin about her responsibility as a Commissioner for the actions of all Gardai under her command? About her responsibility to set the culture and tone of the organisation? About the two laptops and four phones that went missing?


    This wasn't journalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You'd like answers to those questions, so would I.

    The essence of journalism is getting the story you can get and filing it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Do you think the false allegations highlighted by others was good journalism? I don't - it was click bait stuff. Some journalists want to believe the worst of every state body.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,500 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Caquas


    A new chapter is being written in the greatest scandal in our recent history but it will play out behind closed doors and the media aren't too bothered.

    The Charlton Disclosures Tribunal found that there was an extraordinary series of failures in Tusla and “startling inefficiency and indolence within social services” around the creation and dissemination of this baseless allegation of child rape against Sgt. McCabe. The Tribunal stopped short of accusing anyone of deliberately trying to destroy Sgt. McCabe although the effect of this letter was devastating for him and his family and it was at the centre of a whispering campaign against him.

    Now, 10 years later, the Tulsa staff concerned are the subject of a fitness to practice inquiry but we won’t hear the evidence against them. What confidence can we have in this inquiry?

    Are we living in a country where there are no consequences for those whose manifest incompetence so nearly destroyed an honest man? Do Ministers who were vindicated get the chop while others sail on?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I saw this yesterday. Disgusting optics. Absolutely part of the smear campaign but it will be swept under the carpet as usual.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Mod:-

    Moving this over to Current Affairs, where it is much mote suited.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,997 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    I admire him so much!

    I honestly don't know how he survived everything that was thrown at him.

    I certainly would have crumbled.

    Him and his family are obviously built of extremely strong stuff!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,842 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The country is quite simply corrupt.

    and various publications, rate us as such, the global corruption index and trading economics both have in the top 10 corrupt countries in the world.

    it’s tough to argue when you see what happened to McCabe. When you have an organisation supposedly who are meant to stand up against bullies, corruption, harassment and injustice yet are at least at certain levels more adept at facilitating and causing the type of problems they are supposed to be addressing…..





  • That’s not true. You need to learn how to read, Ireland is not in the top 10 corrupt countries In the world. Someone else who can’t read made the exact same mistake before (was it you, you are hardly that bad at reading are you?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    We're number ten for least corrupt... Not discounting the atrocious treatment of McCabe but there's most definitely far more corrupt countries than Ireland in 2023.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Can you give us a link to at least one of these publications? You wouldn’t want people thinking you were inventing facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Both organisations rank Ireland as the tenth least corrupt country in the World.

    That's not to say there is no corruption in Ireland but we are considered less corrupt than every other country in the World except for nine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Part of Maurice McCabe’s tragedy is that his most ardent supporters don’t understand him and they used him to support their nonsensical beliefs - “Ireland is the most corrupt country in the world”. Because of this miasma of ignorance and prejudice, the McCabe scandal brought down two Ministers for Justice who were blameless in this matter. Ironically, this scandal eventually gave us Taoiseach Leo Varadkar but that strange tale is now forgotten.

    Sgt. McCabe was an honest cop who reported what he saw to his superiors in accordance with procedures. He didn’t see bribe-taking or police violence or framing of innocent suspects. What he saw was incompetence, fecklessness, laziness, irresponsibility and failures of duty. These are concepts alien to many of those who became his most ardent supporters because they have never held a position of responsibility.

    Sgt. McCabe made the mistake of reporting this behaviour in the expectation that his superiors would take action to remedy the problems. Instead, they disowned him and exposed him to retribution from the colleagues he had reported, including the father of the girl whose subsequent allegation of sexual abuse was dismissed but then turned by Tusla into a baseless allegation of child rape.

    The lesson of this scandal is not “massive corruption” but “no consequences”, that is no consequences for endemic incompetence, fecklessness, laziness, irresponsibility and failures of duty. How many Gardai are now suspended from duty for years on end with no prospect of either vindication or dismissal?

    And it’s not just the Gardai. The HSE is the motherlode. Hardly a week goes by without some massive settlement by the HSE for medical negligence. But where are the consequences for the negligent staff? We do get occasional “fitness to practice” medical cases but almost invariably the doctor or nurse concerned were chancers who have now left the country. The HR staff who hired these chancers are never held to account.

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    And it’s not just the Gardai. The HSE is the motherlode. Hardly a week goes by without some massive settlement by the HSE for medical negligence. But where are the consequences for the negligent staff? We do get occasional “fitness to practice” medical cases but almost invariably the doctor or nurse concerned were chancers who have now left the country. The HR staff who hired these chancers are never held to account.

    Many of the medical based settlements made by the HSE are down to simple errors (which is what humands do!).

    If you punish people for making mistakes then they won't do that particular process. What do you think might happen then?

    Or was this just intended at the few medical negligence stories you hear about which involve a foreign doctor?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I get your point, but I wouldn't agree with the narrative that Mr McCabe made a mistake. His behaviour is beyond question in my view.

    I don't know whether his story amounts to proof of widespread corruption within AGS, but I'd argue it's evidence of more than just fecklessness and laziness.

    The treatment he received from his 'colleagues' (remember the dead rat nailed to the door, as well as the false rape allegations), to me points to culture of deviancy, arrogance and a disrespect for the very laws they've sworn to defend, within AGS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm not sure I'd fully agree.

    My guess is that we are more corrupt than other developed countries but that the type of corruption we have here isn't picked up by this scale.

    You won't give a direct cash bribe to a Policeman here, but I think there's quite a lot of more complex, subtle corruption that just isn't as obvious.

    As an example, I've only just come to learn of a news story from about 10 years ago where Michael Martin had monies received from a property developer in his wife's bank account. I think to any reasonable person there's something rotten about that, but here it's just brushed away and even normalised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,095 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Look, you can't just ignore the evidence and decide that your "guess" is a better way of estimating where we rank on a corruption index.

    Far from it being "brushed away", that payment - suspicious as it indeed was - was actually uncovered in the Mahon Tribunal. The article may have been about 10 years ago, but the payment was in 1991. A lot has changed in the country since then - much of it thanks to whistleblowers like Maurice McCabe and Tom Gilmartin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭BrianD3



    IMO there isn't "massive" corruption and criminality in public bodies but rather low level corruption and fraud (e.g. time card) combined with incompetence, fecklessness, laziness, irresponsibility, sloppiness, apathy, and a don't rock the boat/keep the head down culture. I say that as both a former public servant with a lot of experience of dealing with various public organisations and as a current user of public services.

    In the case of McCabe, the power that Gardai have probably tends to attract a certain number of undesirables into the career - so if retribution for rocking the boat was going to happen to a whistleblower in any organisation, it was going to be in AGS.

    As for the HSE, I am currently dealing with it and its private sector contractors over a homecare package for an elderly relative. The incompetence and stupidity that I have encountered from care staff, managers and administrations is beyond belief. The administrators in the HSE cannot even issue a simple letter in a timely manner and when they do so following my complaints, it is littered with errors and omissions. I've received veiled threats from HSE and contractor employees that if I complain about the quality of service, it may be withdrawn completely. I've received various insinuations that bruising that has appeared on my relative after rough handling (that I have secretly filmed) by homecare staff is actually being caused by me. So while I'm not in a McCabe situation, were this to escalate further, I might be.

    We hear about the big HSE court cases where people have been killed or had their lives ruined due to negligence. What we don't hear much about is the 500+ deaths and tens of thousands of injuries that occur each year due to "adverse incidents" in HSE facilities - and these figures don't even include incidents in the voluntary hospitals that our health service is so dependent on. It also doesn't include the massive can of worms that is the homecare sector.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Your experiences are your experiences, I met an elderly neighbor of my sisters who has nothing but praise for the HSE service that got her home from the hospital and for the care workers who came into her home to help her, in contrast to your experience.

    It is almost impossible that you have never encountered good care workers or anyone competent let alone the kindness that elderly people often receive from the care staff they encounter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I assumed it would be clear from my post that I meant his honourable action in reporting his colleagues’ failures was a mistake in the sense that it brought all sorts of pain and suffering to him and his family.

    It is a national tragedy that honest whistleblowers like Sgt. McCabe were vilified and that chancers like Keith Harrison tried to climb on a bandwagon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I don’t say that all negligence falls to the level of incompetence but it does mean that the medical staff failed to provide the proper standard of care.

    Do you doubt that many cases in this cascade of settlements involved even graver failures of medical care? Yet we see consequences so rarely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    So my experiences are my experiences and your experiences are based on meeting "a neighbour of your sister". OK.

    And some of the reasons that people praise homecare staff include

    a) they don't know that they are receiving poor service/being abused as they don't know any better

    b) the alternative (staying in a shambolic acute hospital or shambolic nursing home) is worse.

    c) they are afraid to say anything negative to anyone because of the veiled threats that services will be withdrawn if they do. To bring this back on topic, fear of reprisals is also why there aren't more Maurice McCabes blowing whistles.

    And I never said that I have never encountered good care workers or anyone competent - you'd need to read more carefully. If I was to put a figure on it I'd say that 10-15% of care workers that I have encountered are competent. Maybe your sister's neighbour has been lucky enough to encounter one of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I think Sgt. McCabe would agree with this or, at least, he would have when he reported his colleagues’ failures.

    He then discovered the hard way that the system cannot deal with lazy, feckless, incompetent behaviour. His superiors resented his efforts to address this behaviour and things spiralled out of control, taking out two (!) Ministers for Justice, one (maybe two?) Garda Commissioner and his Press Officer. Oh, and the Taoiseach.

    All that could have been avoided if a Garda Superintendent had backed Sgt. McCabe in his efforts to improve policing in Cavan/Monaghan.

    Who gets to vote confidence in all of those Gardai ( 98% of them) who believed they had a right to vote no confidence in the Commissioner?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,500 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If you're secretly filming people coming into your/her home, you're breaching their data protection rights and jeopardising any complaints made using that information.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I agree. The sort of corruption picked up by the RTE Investigates team is very subtle but widespread. Find me a county councillor who hasn't faked expenses for example. Look at the TD Dara Murphy (FG) and what he got away with.

    The government have blocked all reform in this area. The current reform bill has been on pause for 7 years.

    McCabe is a national hero but I don't know how her survived the smear campaign.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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