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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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    #10382
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211510#Comment_118211510

    I think, ultimately that people will go where they're going to get the best opportunities and odds for a better life. The UK's economic situation will be the main determining factor in their decision making. If that deteriorates, as is slowly unfolding, then fewer people will come if any at all. Many HGV drivers have prioritised job security in Europe over the pathetic fast track visa scheme deployed by the government. 

    For myself, if I see something interesting on the continent, I'll apply for it but my limiting factor is linguistics as opposed to economics. My mate used to work in R&D in Paris and, only for his seniority, his inability to speak French would have ruled him out. Most jobs I see are in the native lingo which is of course fair enough. At the end of the day, a French immunotherapy firm or a Dutch law firm aren't going to look twice at me when they can get someone as good or better on the continent with a few more languages to boot and that's perfectly fine. It's also why I'm probably going to stay here or maybe go back to Ireland.

    As for pubs, I don't know where you're going but my favourite, the Fitzroy doesn't attract that crowd at all thankfully. It's not even got wifi.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #10383
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211621#Comment_118211621

    The Fitzroy is a bit of a bubble in fairness. I was in a different Sam Smiths only a few blocks away from it just before Covid and the English lad at the table next to me was explaining to his friend that "the Irish need to get over all that crap with the English cause it was 100 years ago" followed by "The Irish are too stupid to rule themselves". That guy was Brexiters in a nutshell for me



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    #10384
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211687#Comment_118211687

    Everywhere's a bit of a bubble. I wouldn't walk into a Wetherspoon's and expect to hear about how immigrants contribute to Britain.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #10385
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211402#Comment_118211402

    But for people thinking of moving to GB / England, they are hearing the message loud and clear from Johnson, Patel and the English public - 'you're not wanted here, you're nothing but a potential burden on the country, you have nothing to offer us' etc.



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    #10386
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,419 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211510#Comment_118211510

    Slightly related to your third paragraph is that emigration can get quite lonely even for the highly skilled person. Having a support network of your fellow countrymen/women can be an important social outlet even if they are more or less skilled than you. It's someone to watch the FC Bucharest match with, or celebrate Bulgarian independence day or a few beers on the Polish national holiday. And none of your fellow 'expats' particularly care if you are a scientist or a builder.

    So an immigration policy that favours the highly skilled can also make it less attractive for the highly skilled.



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    #10387
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212205#Comment_118212205

    I know the Irish are exempt but imagine we were not and only the "highly skilled" were allowed to remain. It would absolutely gut things like the GAA clubs. Most countries would have something similar like soccer supporters clubs.

    AC Milan nights above the Comedy Pub (apt these days) won't be the same anymore



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    #10388
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Fantastic stuff.

    When the PR office have to say you are not unwell, and you are not losing your grip on the premiership, things are not going well.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/23/boris-johnson-is-not-unwell-and-has-not-lost-his-grip-says-no-10




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    #10389
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213960#Comment_118213960

    What's a sucking dove in this quote from the speech: "Because I can tell you, as a former motoring correspondent, EVs may not burble like sucking doves and they may not have that arum arum araaaaaagh that you love."

    I don't associate 'sucking' with birds.



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    #10390
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213960#Comment_118213960

    Usually just having to deny something is enough to do damage even if it's not true in the end.

    Like Corbyn being an IRA sympathiser



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    #10391
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,636 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211553#Comment_118211553

    The EFTA can be seen as a path to joining the EU, as done by Austria, Denmark, Finland, Portugal, Sweden and the UK. Or a close alliance as seen by Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. Liechtenstein doesn't make it's money in trade.

    Joining that club would only be possible if they accepted all the rules and if the other countries let them.

    The rules have changed a lot since, mostly taking on EU laws and it's unlikely the UK would sign up to them on an equal basis what with the UK having higher GDP and population. I could see Scotland joining easily as they would be a much better fit in terms of exports, direction, and size. Regarding the UK it's unlikely the existing countries would hand over more sovereignty to a country heading in a different direction and demanding more rights.

    The irony is that the UK founded the club in 1960 when they weren't let into the EU first time around and had the bulk of the GDP and population.



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    #10392
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,460 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215508#Comment_118215508

    An interesting thing about doves/pigeons is they can suck, most birds can't do this and have to fill their beak with water and throw their head back to drink it. /tangent



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    #10393
    reslfj
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭reslfj


    The EFTA can be seen as a path to joining the EU,....


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216173/#Comment_118216173

    Capt'n Midnight

    Why do you talk about EFTA. It has as an organisation very little relation to the EU. It's basically only providing its EFTA court as a front for the ECJ.

    Three of the four states in EFTA happens to be member of the EEA (IS, LI, NO) which is an appendix to the EU. One has 100+ bilateral guillotine locked agreements with the EU (CH).

    These relations by four countries with the EU are NOT part of their membership of EFTA.

    Lars :)

    PS! All EU members are EEA members too (administrated by the EU from Brussels) and CH deals will not be repeated for other countries.



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    #10394
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭McGiver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211553#Comment_118211553

    EFTA won't let the UK, a bully, an exceptionalist, special treatment-seeking, ex-colonial bully,to join it. Never ever. It would break the club, its delicate balance.

    They're all tiny to small countries that never colonised anyone, in fact Norway was colonised by Denmark and/or Sweden, similarly for Iceland. Switzerland was always independent and neutral and not a coloniser. Lichtenstein is basically an Austrian/German county (technically a principality) that didn't stay in either the German Confederation nor the Austrian Empire respectively, or more correctly wasn't absorbed by either as other Houses during the 19th century. The House of Lichtenstein were historically never colonisers either.

    I believe all 4 EFTA members have equal voting rights.

    How would a toxic (or slightly less toxic) UK with a population of 66M and that demands a special treatment fit into this elite club of countries with a population of 14M?

    Would an arrogant (or slightly less arrogant) UK accept Lichtenstein County with population of 40k having the same vote as UK?

    EFTA would be OK for Scotland but not UK.

    I could see a Swiss style arrangement with the EU allowing the UK to participate in the SM as more realistic but that's also not really favoured by the EU either so...



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    #10395
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭McGiver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217440#Comment_118217440

    Exactly, EEA is the path to join the EU, not EFTA.

    Or we could say EFTA AND EEA are the path to join the EU. EFTA itself is nice but meaningless. EEA is the real deal. The Swiss could tell... just making it too complicated not to lose face.



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    #10396
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,625 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Can't see the UK looking to join any path back to the EU.

    Too much loss of face. Never mind the politicians. The voters couldn't take it.

    The knock to the national physche would be simply too much.

    How do you even go about selling that. 'Giving back control because we can't do it ourselves'.



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    #10397
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218560#Comment_118218560

    It will happen in time and by stealth. There will come a time when this isn't a toxic subject and the UK will rejoin various aspects of the EEA through trade deals and treaties



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    #10398
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218664#Comment_118218664

    Personally, I think the UK will break up first and Scotland will be first to rejoin, possibly followed by NI as part of a united Ireland.

    It would be interesting to see what the rump state of England & Wales would do in that scenario and whether it would be interested in EU membership (presumably large numbers of the current ageing right wing English Europhobes would be long dead by that point).



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    #10399
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218708#Comment_118218708

    I don't think EU membership is on the cards in my lifetime.

    A Norway style deal like Farage promised before his backtrack I think is definitely gonna happen at some stage



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    #10400
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218748#Comment_118218748

    Anglo-EU relations for the next 30 years or so are very difficult to predict certainly. They've burned their bridges for the moment and made it clear they see the EU / Europe as an enemy - it's anyone's guess where this goes in future.



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    #10401
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218882#Comment_118218882

    I think it's not so much the UK, though, as the current UK regime. If you saw 1997-style regime change in UK politics at some point in the next few years, that could change a lot of things.



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    #10402
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭McGiver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219043#Comment_118219043

    Yes but with the flawed voting system the regime can simply go back to another Johnsonist incarnation few years thereafter...



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    #10403
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭rock22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219043#Comment_118219043

    I'm not sure though that it is just this regime. For my sins, I frequent vintage motorcycle forum's , mostly UK based. And the casual conversation there, when it occasionally covers politics, is very very pro Brexit. I have had difficulties getting parts posted because of the new customs rules and again, I am been told it is the 'bloody Europeans' being anti British and just trying to punish them for leaving.

    I can see at least 20 years before there is any serious attempt by UK to re-join. And I imagine it will only happen after the UK have again entered the CU for a few years.

    And then of course, will they be welcomed?

    I think, ultimately they will be allowed back in but it will not be a welcome with open arms and I can see the French in particular being slow to come round to the idea of a UK within the EU again. As Strazdas says, At the moment the UK are burning their bridges as fast as they can.



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    #10404
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219328#Comment_118219328

    Good point : also, the Tories have been in power for the vast bulk of the last 50 years. New Labour was almost an aberration.



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    #10405
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Please don't dump links here. Post removed.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #10406
    Going Strong
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Going Strong


    You wait ages for Ireland to be thrown under the bus.......


    And you wait some more.


    German coalition agreement includes commitment to ensuring that the Northern Ireland protocol is implemented and the Belfast Agreement is protected.



    https://twitter.com/denisstaunton/status/1463518224557957127



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    #10407
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,798 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Those German car makers will be along any moment now to demand it, I'm sure. When they actually have surplus cars to sell and if the UK any money left by then to buy them.


    Actually wish I hadn't made that joke now as I could see the car shortage being used as a reason for why the car makers haven't been their saviour!



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    #10408
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Not directly related to Brexit per se, but Johnson is coming out with some bonkers stuff in relation to the Channel tragedy - tells Macron he wants a "returns policy" for refugees and the right for British troops to patrol French beaches.



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    #10409
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224329#Comment_118224329

    Well, pre-Brexit, the UK returned 249 or so migrants. Since they're out of the EU and "Dublin 3," the number returned is...5


    But, they're taking back control. Hilarious.



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    #10410
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224329#Comment_118224329

    This is the government that had a meltdown when it was suggested that the EU should have an office in Belfast to facilitate liaison with UK authorities on the implementation of the NI Protocol, but now they want UK law enforcement officers patrolling inside French territory?



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    #10411
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    I see Priti Patel and the UK have been un invited from the conference on migration that France had scheduled.


    France has said they have un invited her due to the inappropriate response of BJ's open letter requesting the French accept the return of thise who manage to cross, amongst other things, some 5 point plan BJ came up with.



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