Foundation (Apple) [ SPOILERS ]

bnt · 16-10-2021 3:26pm

“How did Salvor Hardin know that it was Seldon's library (on Trantor). She would never have been there?”

She would have been surrounded by Foundation lore her whole life; at this point (end of Ep. 5) they’ve been on Terminus for about 30 years, so she grew up there. In school she would have learned all about Hari Seldon and his history, with pictures or video of Streeling University etc. It would be like someone from Galway learning about Pádraig Pearse and recognizing the GPO even if they’ve never been to Dublin.

I think I’m adjusting to the slow pace of the show. I wasn’t expecting it to be all Asimov, but Ep. 5 had little or no Asimov. Gun battles and fist fights (with shaky camera work), when we know what Asimov thought about violence and how it was irrelevant in the big picture? I get how the show needs to be character-driven and show the human side, but we still need the big ideas behind it all.

Talisman · 16-10-2021 3:48pm

I have yet to take the time to sit down and watch episodes 4 and 5. I think I'll leave it for another week or two so that I can binge a few episodes at once. The business of tv shows adding a hook in the final few minutes to create drama for the next episode annoys the sh!t out of me, there should be no need for it if the material is strong enough to hold the audience's interest.

Nody · 17-10-2021 12:54pm

I've played catch up and watched first five episode over the last three days and I'm honestly done. The foundation should be a drama driven story about humanity and handling of events and the tension between individuals; instead we get an poorly executed action series to the backdrop of the one line version of the foundation trilogy. The story don't grip me; the action is invasion of the tomato level poor and I simply don't care. The trilogy has plenty of ways to drum up drama and plot twists which is the point; drama not action sequences is what the series should have been about. There's a lovely story arc that could have been told about how the current events in the book (only connection basically being the planets involved) through tense drama with cliffhangers without of adding pew pew pew to "make it tense".

corkie · 19-10-2021 7:53pm

<YouTube> Foundation Season 2 Announcement | Showrunner Answers Fan Questions

David Goyer AMA Foundation Season 1 & 2 : - https://www.reddit.com/r/FoundationTV/comments/q8r4b0/david_s_goyer_foundation_showrunner_ama/

David Goyer Foundation AMA - Post Discussion Thread : - https://www.reddit.com/r/FoundationTV/comments/q8tpvt/david_goyer_foundation_ama_post_discussion_thread/

Looks like they only have rights to the 'Foundation' series and not Empire or Robots.

No 'Mary Sue' characters, even though early episodes give that impression.

Amalgamation of some characters from the books. <<< i.e. Gaal Dormick

is_that_so · 20-10-2021 8:03am

I see some negative comments about the show here. Only watched the first one myself and quite underwhelmed by it. Don't know the source material at all but does it get any better?

20-10-2021 8:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993432#Comment_117993432

People discussing TV show, on it's merit, in the Television Forum... Shokka

corkie · 23-10-2021 1:43pm

No post yet about episode 6? Have people lost interest in the show already?

Thought this episode was enjoyable, but still waiting on how they resolve things, to make a judgement on it overall.

[ScreenRant] Foundation Episode 6: The First Seldon Crisis Explained

The first Seldon Crisis is becoming a reality in Foundation episode 6, as the Galactic Empire veers closer to the brink of its inevitable collapse.

Slydice · 23-10-2021 2:59pm

This episode boosted signifcantly by me watching the first three episodes of the dull-in-comparison Invasion series last night.

6: Things moving along, action and the epic story and the big story developing.

I thought the scene where the Warden loses her Dad was acted really well by Leah Harvey. She did really well in the switch from solid determination to crippling loss.

Ok, for the big story, then it looks like there's gonna be some cool Destroyer level spaceship coming up.. sounds like they're gonna have a go at Trantor. Huge Battle in Space possibility rising!!

For the epic story, looks like this is the Religon event that Sheldon warned about.

Brother Dawn.... hrmmm .. hmm hmm hmm

Colour Blind. In Love. .. Maybe about to lose Brother Day and get trust into a Brother Day role early if the current one is killed. Plus the a maybe loss of their Android..

These could be the setup of structural weaknesses to spur events along.

Slydice · 23-10-2021 3:05pm

Oh! and

the Vault at the end. I don't remember seeing it lit up before.

Like maybe it's a Sheldon thing or maybe time travel thing and this is the moment it's been setup to wait for to take action

VinLieger · 23-10-2021 11:18pm

Sad to see they don't have the rights to link this back to robots or empire as would ultimately be needed imo for properly developing demerzel motivations and backstory.

Seems like they are combining the first 2 crisis from the books via the spaceship and I'm guessing some what will be some kind of standoff between the other outer rim kingdoms that we haven't yet seen.

But then they are also kind of dividing the second crisis from the books as the religion aspect there was very much focused on the foundation having set themselves up as a church of science for those kingdoms and thus made themselves indespensible to then succeed in the second crisis. I'm interested to see where this empire religion story goes far more than the current terminus storyline.

corkie · 29-10-2021 4:41pm

https://www.avclub.com/foundation-explores-old-mysteries-and-new-discoveries-1847959949

Also, apparently bra clasps have not changed in 12,000 years?

😃 ?

Slydice · 29-10-2021 9:46pm

7: Well I want to know more! Oh yeah do I want to know more!

about Gaal and this future business! This .. I am looking forward to!

Yeah yeah.. big warship.. big splosions.. psssshh.. Gimme that future sense!

So I don't think

Both the Warship plan and the Religion plan are gonna pan out.

Feels like the Warship plan would damage Foundation so I'm guessing it's the Religion plan that's gonna start the decline of Empire.. combined with Brother Dawn and his differences.

and I still REALLY like the feel of the scifi in this show.. the Special Effect/Practical Effects/Directors/Editors/Cinematographers/whoever is making it happen are doing some good work!

cdgalwegian · 30-10-2021 12:58pm

When I heard this was being made into a series, I started on the first book, but it came as across as too much like fantasy for me (which I don’t like in books), so soon gave up- but I quite liked the main conceit in it. Been looking forward to seeing how it would be put together as a tv series (without having watched the trailers).

Watched the first 3 episodes; quite liking it. It does jump around a bit, and seems a bit 'gappy' but I suppose there’s a huge amount of story to fit in efficiently for a first series. Visually great, with good acting and direction. For a truly galactic story, it’s all been very small-scale and low-key, I suppose in order to get a grip on the main characters, and the burgeoning threats, so I expect that to open up. There is the potential then of this becoming properly epic, and hopefully then not too unwieldy.

Shred · 30-10-2021 6:47pm

I haven't read the books and while I enjoyed the first few episodes of this and will definitely see it out, the pacing of it, combined with that TV series trope of following a particular storyline/character one week, ending on a cliffhanger and then skipping them the next...makes it a bit annoying tbh. Plus the action sequences (particularly in episode 6) are poorly done I thought, all very '90s TV production'. Overall it's intriguing on some levels while at the same time frustrating on others, but I'll reserve overall judgement until the season finishes.

Talisman · 05-11-2021 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062237#Comment_118062237

I haven't found the time to get back to it. I think I have watched the first four episodes so as of today I'm four episodes behind. I sat down last weekend with the intention of watching a couple of episodes but as the intro started I was asked if we could watch Dune instead so HBO Max won.

My son has lost interest in the series, he likes the story but it's the format in which it is presented that he doesn't like. He says he'll binge watch it over the Christmas period just to see it through.

corkie · 05-11-2021 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026361#Comment_118026361

And as of the end of episode 8, 'Gaal' back in cryo for another 138 years, if she is not picked up on her way to Synnax

So kind of predicted the above.

Foundation's Psychohistory Science Isn't Making Any Sense

https://thecinemaholic.com/foundation-episode-8-recap-and-ending-explained/

Also 'Eto Demerzel' can not be governed by the three laws. (Unless the "Zeroth Law" comes into play.

Talisman · 05-11-2021 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122498#Comment_118122498

Also 'Eto Demerzel' can not be governed by the three laws. (Unless the "Zeroth Law" comes into play.

I thought that was hinted at in the third episode. I haven't seen much more of the series so I don't know if they made other alterations to the character that would suggest otherwise.

mewso · 06-11-2021 12:30am

Perfect example of the writer's mistrust of the viewer at the end of the latest episode:-

It was obvious Day had no vision but knew what to pretend he had seen to win favour but just to be sure they not only show him not having a vision they also repeat Demerzel's words just in case.

I'm actually genuinely addicted to how bad this can get now. The performances are pretty bad all round bar Lee Pace who is excellent. In fact the Empire stuff has been the most interesting part of the show so far. A few others are decent but the two mains - Hardin and Gaal are pretty terrible although it could be the writing. Hardin in particular has switched form being competent with perfect instincts to foolish and impetuous depending on what the script requires. I'll try not to post anymore as I know it annoys people to see negativity too often and it does seem like if you haven't read the books you get more out of it.

Slydice · 06-11-2021 2:47pm

8: Lookit.. that was just pretty damn good episode of Science Fiction! Story, tech, production, sets, acting, directing all just pulling together really well into a combined effort.

Right, I

couldn't believe he sent Demerzel to kill Halima! Ruthless! 😲

showing the other side of the Anacreon was done really well.. real Terminator 2 intro/Sarah Connor judgement day vision vibes..

I'm not sure what's gonna happen with the warship.. did we find out if The Warden is related to Gaal? I mean I'm pretty sure we saw her mother on Terminus.. but like.. this luck business.. seems very Gaal like.. could she be adopted.. nah.. no way.

Gaal set a course that'll take 138 years.. either something happens on the way or I'm seeing a time jump coming up soon in the show.

Then all this business with Exo possibly meaning external-to-the-galaxy threat and the Vault on Terminus .. maybe there are Aliens

All in all.. a lot done, a lot more potential and a very exciting show so far!

Great performance out of Jared Harris! What a boon for this show that he joined up!

Slydice · 06-11-2021 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127445#Comment_118127445

Oh! and of course the one big thing I'm also guessing:

That second "hidden" Foundation that Seldon is planning.. I'm guessing then that maybe this whole ship he.. (well.. his representation anyway).. that the ship might be a cryo ship bringing the the to-be-grown population of the second Foundation to their planet.

VinLieger · 07-11-2021 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127445#Comment_118127445

Unless they have radically changed the vault from the books then its not the exo threat however at the end of the 5th book, Foundations edge, its clearly stated the purpose of the foundation and the path for humanity was to prepare itself for any potential exo threat so it seems they are running with that idea maybe?

youcancallmeal · 10-11-2021 11:23pm

I'm caught up now to episode 8 so can finally read this thread, watched them all in the last few days. I've never read the books but have to say I'm really enjoying it. The acting, script, visuals and story all seem pretty good to me. Not sure I understand the negativity here, maybe it's because I binge watched it or didn't read the books

11-11-2021 12:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148688#Comment_118148688

It works far better binged.

Shred · 12-11-2021 12:57am

I really enjoyed episode 8, hopefully 9 & 10 continue in a similar vein to finish the season on a high!

Talisman · 12-11-2021 3:24pm

Some of the negative reactions online remind me of the outrage of some die hard Tolkien fans when they first saw the first of the LOTR movies. Many felt that Peter Jackson had failed to deliver the epicness of the journey amongst other things. The entrance to Moria was a hop, skip and a jump away from Rivendel and Rohan was just a couple of minutes jog around the corner from Llothlorien etc. And that was years before giant eagles swooped in and saved the day!

The show is certainly not Asimov's Foundation. It's the source material re-imagined. In a world where nobody had heard of Isaac Asimov and read the books I think the show would be considered ground breaking - that sounds like the premise for a Danny Boyle movie.

I've been watching the episodes in batches of two and it flows better, episodes viewed in isolation disjoint the story for me. I'm caught up to episode 8 now so next week I have episode 9 and the season finale to look forward to.

As a first season I think it has done a decent job of establishing the universe but it could unfurl quite quickly if they stray too far from the source material and lose themselves.

My first thought when I saw that Brother Dawn was colour blind is that Demerzel has been tweaking their genetic code. That would be an interesting twist to the story.

corkie · 12-11-2021 9:15pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjUAHlnNdxo

https://www.artofvfx.com/foundation-bringing-visions-to-life/

Got to read the second foundation trilogy by other authors from searching here, previous source didn't have 'foundations triumph'

fritzelly · 12-11-2021 9:59pm

I'm confused - how does Salvor have a memory of opening the vault key thing

corkie · 12-11-2021 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158183#Comment_118158183

Has not been explained very well, but she has had visions from (i assume) the vault of 'Gaal Dormicks' memories before in earlier episodes.

But the vault sent a head of the 'Foundation's Crew', don't know how that is possible unless 'Hari Sheldon' transmit more to the vault.

Or she is just happens to be the 'Chosen One' but the creators ruled that out and just said the story may hint at it.

Slydice · 12-11-2021 11:13pm

9: Well that gave me

a bit of a giggle at the end! I was like wooo! more Jared Harris for the show! 😁

The huntress just went totally delusional there at the end.. could also see the show push at the edge of it's special effects budget.

Empire and Brother Dawn.. well that was something! I can't see Brother Day being of a different opinion that Brother Dusk.. Clone Dawn Cleon next episode I'm guessing

As for end of Empire.. I dunno.. I could see possibilities from what I remember Sheldon saying earlier.. but I'm not sure if I'm off or if he mentioned the outer reaches as being a possibility. Maybe I just remember Empire calling the outer reaches a threat.

Talisman · 14-11-2021 12:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158183#Comment_118158183

I assume this is something from episode 9 which I haven't seen but I think it's probably because of her DNA.

In episode 2, Gaal Dornick had a zygote surgically removed and placed in the 'seed bank'. I think that when the outpost was established on Terminus, Mari Hardin carried it to full term. It would explain why people on Terminus always believed that Salvor was an outlier, biologically she is Gaal Dornick's daughter and should share some of her traits.

In episode 1, Gaal did not pass out when the transport ship jumped to Trantor. I'm guessing that Salvor would not be incapacitated by the ship jumping in episode 9.

I think that the Vault uses similar technology for the projected null field. We've seen that the field affects every living creature except Salvor Hardin. I'd be willing to bet that Gaal Dornick or Spacers would also not be affected by it.

The premonitions that Salvor gets at various points during the series are similar in nature to those the Gaal has had. I had thought that the reciting of the primes had given Gaal some hee-bee gee-bee connection to the mathematics of the universe and this was the mystical source of the super power but that is not something that Salvor does.

Salvor has a more refined power. It could be the case that Gaal activated the power within herself but Salvor was born with it switched on. She can predict the coin toss, she can read people and their memories. She also had a recollection of Gaal's memories when the Anachreon soldiers first attacked Terminus. Would it be too far fetched to think that she could recall something from the memories of either Gaal or Raych because they are both part of her?

She didn't exhibit that type of connection with either Mari or Abbas Hardin. Abbas had to tell her about how he came to be on Terminus. She could have used her powers to lift that information straight out of his head or sensed it but she didn't.

silverharp · 15-11-2021 3:41pm

I read Foundation as a teenager and it was up there with the best stuff I read at that age, the show is barely sparking any memories though. Its a bit sterile as a show, you cant call it gripping or binge watchable.

Talisman · 19-11-2021 11:26am

I just finished watching the final two episodes and I'm delighted to say that I think they pulled it together well. The time skip sets up the next season to feature the beginning of the conflict between the Foundation and the Empire.

opus · 19-11-2021 9:35pm

Really enjoyed the finale although I'm a bit dubious about all this waiting around in cryosleep that people are doing.

Too bad about baby Cleon

Slydice · 20-11-2021 9:32pm

Well that was season one! A good science fiction show. Story driven, not action driven. Not that it doesn't have action.

Solid story, solid acting performances.

One real standout had to be the combo practical and computer effects for the space, spaceships n tech. Very good work put in there!

10: Oh my head!

That was some jump in time there at the end!

So, the Warden meets Gaal! Ha, that's gas that I half guessed the relationship and time jump at episode 8!

I.. I think the daughter.. I dunno.. maybe she's older or close to the same age as the mother!

So rare for shows to trust that idea to audiences!

Anyway..

So.. by this point.. Foundation probably has a good few ships built up. The three Empires might be all new and all modified.

Hadn't seen the Sheldon plan being a fight. They'd sold me on the other purpose of foundation. It could be both though.

To my understanding of it then, it's no longers looks like Foundation vs Cleon Empire. It's now going to be Foundation vs Alter-Cleon Empire. I wonder if Demerzel will still be around. Yeah gotta be.

😱

Demerzel Killing Dawn like that! Damn that original Cleon programming! Ruthless!

😱

Then the Robot Face and scream of Demerzel!

I wouldn't mind more exploration of the Robot history (or present if they are still about but maybe just hiding.. or both)

Future:

Looking forward to a season two! This show has be good new Science Fiction for me!

I see on the wiki it's been renewed for eight episodes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_%28TV_series%29

spookwoman · 20-11-2021 10:48pm

Havent read the books but really enjoyed the series. Father read them yonks ago and can remember bits, he also is enjoying it. Calls it adult Sci Fi.

Sudden Valley · 21-11-2021 6:34pm

A bit of mixed bag of a season. Jared Harris has ben wasted on this. Thought it was funny the scene of Middle Cleon complaining to the revolutionary about not knowing why people want to wreck the empire and then showing what a completely over the top villain he is. I would watch a supercut of only the Cleon scenes and that would be a top 10 scifi show

kneejerk · 25-11-2021 9:20am

Didn't not read the books, really enjoyed this show.

Epic Sci Fi, I'll probably end up reading the books now instead of waiting for season 2.

FutureGuy · 25-11-2021 9:48am

Finished this at the weekend and I'm now watching it again with my wife. I never read the books so had no base of comparison.

Fantastic show. Slow burner for sure, but the cast is stellar.

25-11-2021 10:03am

I find myself disappointed that there will not be an episode tomorrow. I really did not expect that.

This show has quietly engaged me, I really really want to know where they are going with this. I'm assuming that the entire secondary cast will have to be cut, which is a shame as I really liked Hugo. Guy was a properly rounded male character, was able to be effortlessly bad ass but still be an actual human with emotions.

This show, so far, gives me feelings as to what I wanted Discovery to be. And shows how badly they have made a balls of Michael, Sal is everything that Michael is but better in every aspect.

FutureGuy · 25-11-2021 12:42pm

As an aside, amazing feather in the cap for Troy studios. The show looks amazing.

Icyseanfitz · 25-11-2021 1:35pm

Must say I really really liked this show, going to read the books over Christmas I think. Hopefully (Like the expanse) it will be even better in season 2.

silverharp · 26-11-2021 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220246#Comment_118220246

its a pity about the lockdowns , more of the outside stuff was going to be filmed in Ireland

Need a Username · 28-12-2021 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219314#Comment_118219314

I’m reading the books at the moment.

The Apple show is based on the concept of the novels but they are two very different things.

The show is fantastic. Epic in every sense. I was curious as to how the were going to deal with the time jumps necessary to to tell the story while getting the audience to take to new lead characters but the last few minutes of the season finale answers that.

I find Dornick to be very unlikeable. I get the frustration in dealing with what is thrown at her but does she have to be such a whingebag?

Salvore and the Cleons are brilliant characters and the supporting cast are all great. Harris as always is wonderful.

Is season 2 in production yet?

Need a Username · 28-12-2021 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220246#Comment_118220246

Was all the indoor stuff filmed there?

Need a Username · 28-12-2021 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118226119#Comment_118226119

Is season 2 not be filmed in Ireland?

corkie · 28-12-2021 10:50pm

@Need a Username

The series is 'based' on the books, but not a direct adaption, more of inspired from.

Don't really want to post links in case of spoilers.

Back in October, Foundation was greenlit for Season 2. A release date has not been confirmed at this time, but sometime in late 2022 is the best bet.

November 20: -

As the production of Foundation season 2 has only just been announced and is in its early stages we don't expect Apple TV Plus to announced the launch date any time soon, although we'd expect late 2022 or 2023 to be the most likely. Keep an eye on here for any updates.

Need a Username · 29-12-2021 8:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384001#Comment_118384001

I know the series is not a direct adaptation - that is what I was telling knee jerk. That the TV series is based on the concept behind the story on the books, not the books themselves. Maybe I phrased it wrong.

Thanks for the information on season 2.

Bandana boy · 05-01-2022 9:13am

Just binged this in the last week and I loved it .

proper grown up Sci-fi

couldn’t happen on network to , hope Apple TV survives long enough to finish it

Need a Username · 05-01-2022 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419658#Comment_118419658

What is “proper grown up sci- fi”?

cdgalwegian · 08-01-2022 10:48pm

After the first 3 episodes I had seen, this had shown a lot of promise, and I think it delivered quite well. Story-wise the world-building opened up and gained momentum, with investment in the characters. Bit confusing in parts, but all came good in the end. Felt a bit Star-Trekky towards the end with the Phara/Invictus ploy, but i can live with that (I don't know if that was in the book series). Some great epic sci-fi in there, handled really well, with some nice tecchie gadgets thrown in for good measure. Looking forward to season 2.

Foundation (Apple) [** SPOILERS **]

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Foundation (Apple) [ SPOILERS ]