General British politics discussion thread

The amazing thing to behold has been how obvious it has been for the last 5 years that Theresa May and Johnson found themselves in the positions they were/are in totally at the behest of others in the conservative party (and outside it) because it suited them to and their interests to have them there but when the time came for May to be cut loose, it was brutally done and the same will be the case with Johnson.

5 years ago, I told someone, 'imagine, we could end up in a situation, where Johnson is leading the UK through Brexit, and Donald Trump is leading the US and we both kinda laughed at the absurdity of it'. And yet it came about though not immediately with respect to Johnson. And if we had known back then what 2020/21 would bring us with respect to a global pandemic crisis we'd probably have been pretty worried. And with respect to both Trump and Johnson, both of them behaved with exactly the amount of diplomacy, skill and integrity that I expected from them. That is to say, none.

Johnson will probably hold on for another bit moreso because it suits the conservatives for him to do so. They're still getting their bills through, and when it looks like that won't happen, or that attention is shifting more to the next GE, they'll speak solemnly about the need for the best person to be in the job, and for the publics concerns to be listened to and they'll throw Johnson to the side and bring in Sunak or Javid, or Gove or whoever and then talk about all the economic and social issues the UK experienced since 2019 were because of Covid and they now have the right people in place to ensure they look after everyone in the UK (who is legally entitled to be there). The salt in the wound will be Johnson being given a knighthood for his service to Britain in both getting Brexit done and overcoming Covid as the history books will be dramatically edited to reflect this.

There are a lot of similarities between Johnson and his compatriot who held the top office in the US for a period. But where they differ greatly is also very interesting as Trump grabbed the Republican party by the nether regions and has made it his own whereas, as outlined above, the conservative machine still has the ability to keep their leader like a puppet on the end of a string and they decide when the time is for the show to end.

(apologies for going off topic a bit with respect to the thread title but I find the comparisons interesting and worth mentioning)

In an ideal world but this is coupled with private healthcare companies on boards, an erosion of the tendering process and increased control from this proven pro cronyism Tory government.

All signs point to a massive money losing contract to some school buddy of Johnson's going on recent history. Garden Bridge, Covid app etc.

It'll be cheaper by paying staff less, staff who then end up receiving Universal Credit from the government to fill in the difference

Moving the cost to the state to a different bucket which giving away a profit margin in the middle does not save money.

And not from a tabloid either

All too often that works better in theory than practice, with clueless civvie servants signing off tenders that bring neither savings nor expertise. At the BBC things are seriously crazy with many of the contractors being formerly in-house departments that got spun out.

The "they're cheaper because they're specialised" price margin is more than eaten up by the "private firm takes its profit margin from the deal" element.

Outsourcers of that type are cheaper because they rely on poorly paid, state subsidised workers. And that's why everyone uses them.

Move the underpaid staff with no benefits off your own books, your own reports on staff remuneration, your own gender paygap reports, your own modern slavery reporting requirements in the UK and so on. Get a service for a price you couldn't provide it yourself by providing the same standards you provide to your own staff

Outsourcers make their profits off exploitation. Its not management experience - some of the bigger outsourcers are basically known as the exemplars of disasters (you could write a textbook on Capita alone). Its not specialised skill - most of them will take on any work. Its just getting the cheap staff off your own books. And when you ARE the state that is subsidising those staff through social welfare supports, its absolute insanity to do so.

There is a difference when it comes to actual professional services, where an outsourcer isn't going to get away with paying less or providing less benefits; but at the cleaning/catering/laundry end its all based on abuse.

Unfortunately, your rosy and oversimplified view of it here is simply not what happens.

And large hospital laundries will run 100% of the time. If not, get a van and some drivers and bring the linen from multiple hospitals to the biggest one, get it to run 100% of the time and have the same service without handing a profit to Capita/ISS/whoever.

If you must outsource, find an outsourcer that pays the same and provides the same conditions as you do anyway - but good luck finding one that's actually cheaper, if you can find one at all. Because the business model is not based on efficiencies or load cycles, its based on cheap work.

And those in cheap work rely on state support to live.

No I'm not. Outsourcing leads directly to these things that's how outsourcing companies keep the cost down

Think this is a really interesting story because this has the potential to shape westminster and tory politics for the months and years to come. Has the feel of the first open salvos in Sunaks push for the top job. The thing I wonder about is the 109 new mps from 2019, this isn't a game for them, they're the ones who have to go back to constituents and explain why all those campaign pledges were based on johnsonian hot air. A lot of anger and grievance being stirred up there.

Not certain tbh, it's not easy to read. There is palpably a clear rift between the traditional tory low tax/small state adherents and the newer intake of mps who are not so infused in that gospel. They always say the conservatives are great at knitting these factions together when the time comes, but this looks increasingly tricky. How sunak, very much in the traditional camp, navigates this, I'm not sure. But if he is intending on making a move for the leadership, then i think he has between 6-12 months to do so, as the chances would dramatically recede once you get closer to election time. It's not without risk for him either, i would think.