The Irish protocol.

But 85% support for Remain over Leave is not any kind of indication of "the absence of critical, reflective and independent thinking". Ironically, your assumption that it is seems itself to exemplify the very lack of reflection and critical thinking that you deplore. There's no a priori reason to assume that critical and reflective analysis of policy must result in a division of opinion about the policy. If the policy is poorly conceived, poorly articulated and poorly implemented then critical and reflective analysis should result in an overwhelming rejection. And that's very much the case here.

As you point out yourself, the "greater divide up North is sad to see". But, in the NI context, Brexit is inherently divisive. It increases the differences between British and Irish identity and associations; sabotages much of the parity of treatment which resulted from both the UK and Ireland participating in the EU, the Single Market, the Customs Union, etc; and forces people to make choices that weren't previously necessary between policy settings that favour British identity/links over Irish identity/links, or vice versa. If division in NI is a bad thing, then how can any reflective, independent critical thinker in NI support the inherently divisive Brexit?

So, you would expect independent, reflective, critical thinkers in NI to oppose Brexit. If anything, it's the community that contains many members who don't or won't recognise the harm that Brexit threatens to NI, and who can therefore be talked into supporting Brexit, which seems to be displaying the lower level of independence, reflection and critical thinking.

Okay I take your word for it (that what you posted about NI nationalists didn't imply some kind of support for Brexit) but a diversity of opinion is again unassociated with the "health" of a society.

The thing about FG is they are very anglophile, but they are staunchly pro-EU too (more than FF, and much more than SF who were extremely eurosceptic till quite recently). I don't think either of FGs positions have changed much at base (even if they are exasperated with the current UK govt + show it), but UK/NI politics has changed alot.

Now that "Britishness" is (I think) being defined by the UK right wing and by some Unionist politicians in NI partly as opposition to and hatred of the EU, it is a problem for them. IMO It results in seeming absurdities like Varadkar/Coveney becoming Unionist whipping boys! That last does seem mad the more I think about it.

My nearest neighbours across the border are Unionist farmers. Absolutely they are looking to Dublin to ensure they remain in the EU.

In their opinion they are ruined if they have to Bexit along with the UK. I am positive they are not unique.

Amazing that you don't apply that level of scrutiny to your own flash polls, Downcow! Hahahahaha

Good to see that Boris Johnson has rung Micheal Martin to threaten RE the protocol.

Top guy, Johnson.

This is straight out of the handbook that unionists have always used all the way since Brexit.

Pretend you have won no matter what.

Just to be clear, on page 4 of the thread (when Downcow was still in his, 'the Protocol must go' phase, before graduating to the new, 'the Protocol must be eased' phase to spare blushes and the impression of taking a loss when it became apparent that wasn't going to happen).

To emphasise;

So right at the start of this thread Downcow was crowing about the legal challenge getting rid of the NI Protocol, was met with, 'there is plenty of scope for negotiation within the bounds of the Protocol', quietly retreated to a position of claiming to want the Protocol adjusted and keeps repeating the LIE that (s)he has been told there cannot be negotiations under any circumstances when for six months, (s)he has been told there is scope for negotiation.....and it was actually his/her position that shifted to being open to negotiation as opposed to the originally stated, 'it must go' position.

Pure acting the cod to keep parroting the provably wrong back time and time again, despite repeated corrections.

But you were talking about Unionists marching in Dublin earlier in this tread. Presumably in the knowledge that only the Government here ,and the EU in general, have the Unionists' interests at hear.

By the way downcow, seems Boris may have been telling more porkies and playing to the crowd