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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Autumn 2021 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,097 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    UKMO made an excellent visual presentation on their online outlook yesterday, demonstrating the effect of two monsoon systems in the Indian ocean and a third tropical depression in the western Pacific, creating a 'whip' energy surge through the jetstream and creating the steep dive in our vicinity. They say it'll either be mid-Atlantic and induce a slack continental High of mild muck, or give the solution that we are all focussed on today, an Arctic Low plunge onto GB and I. Interesting stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Can someone briefly explain what one should look for with regard to the MJO when it comes to northern blocking and cold for Ireland? I've only been getting to grips with the MJO in recent years, and as such the charts which define its location by numerical phase are still a little confusing to me - however, the VP200 charts which give you a visual representation of it are now within my ability to interpret :D 

    For the uninitiated, or those who have only ever viewed the MJO through the simplified spiral phase/time diagrams, the chart below shows areas of enhanced convection / rising air (green) and suppressed convection / sinking air (red). What I'm wondering is, what do we want this chart to look like if we're hoping for the MJO to give us a kick into a blocking pattern? Where would we want the rising and sinking cells to be? As you can see from the chart, the MJO is currently very firmly in the Indian Ocean, or (I think) Phase 1-3 for those who are more familiar with viewing the MJO in this way. As far as I can remember, we need it in Phase 7 to boost our chances of cold - so the main rising cell (green) centred over the date line, more or less?





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Slashermcguirk


    December 2010 was absolutely epic. 35cm of snow in the garden in Dublin on Christmas Day, can safely say I had never seen that before on the big day. Also the weeks leading up to it were incredible, I particularly remember the snow pummeling down on 23rd December and strolling through the city on Christmas Eve, it was like a winter wonderland. St Stephens Green was completely frozen over and even around college green the fountain froze over and there was amazing icicles forming out of it. That night i think the temperature was down around -12 degrees and from memory the afternoon highs in Dublin were about -3 or -4.

    Another memory of that December was strolling near St Patricks Cathedral one evening and there was freezing fog, there wasnt even the slightest breeze and you could just see these ice crystals in the air, I had never seen that before in Dublin. There were also 6-8 feet long icicles forming from the rooftop of houses everywhere. My eyes could also have been deceiving me but I am almost certain on Christmas Eve 2010 I saw large sheets of ice floating down the River Liffey near the custom house.

    December 2010 was an extraordinary winter event, cant remember anything like it before or after. February / March 2018 was epic as well but in a very different way. For me November / December 2010 remains the best winter event I can ever remember in Ireland (certainly in Dublin anyway). I think it hit close to -20 degrees in parts of the midlands / west. Dublin I think went down to about -12 or -13 but the really crazy thing was the afternoon highs that were even well below freezing



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    I’d fecking love that to happen again, unreal memories of it. Getting pished on Xmas eve and the hangover wasn’t long clearing once you went for the Xmas day walk. The highlight for me was a few lads playing ice hocking on the rivers in kanturk! Totally frozen over. If I remember rift-16/17 was the temp that night



  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭zisdead


    ominous foreboding of the coming early Spring? I heard it all now. You must be great at a party ;)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,605 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Yeah I tend to refer more to the diagram showing amplitude of particular phases rather than VP200 charts as they are quite a straightforward way of seeing what the MJO is doing relatively speaking. But generally, what one should look out for at this time of year for high latitude blocking to occur is a strong MJO passage of phases 4-5-6 (activity moves from the maritime continent towards the west Pacific) which leads to wave breaking in the Atlantic and helps amplify a mid-Atlantic ridge which may become a Greenland high dependent on how strong this wave breaking is.

    It should be noted that of course the MJO or tropical amplification is not the be all and end all, and other things such as a major SSW event or favourable SSTs being conducive to building high pressure out to the west and northwest of Ireland blocking off the Atlantic. Late 2010 occurred with a weak MJO (it was driven by a textbook tripole pattern in the North Atlantic which favoured a southerly tracking of the jet stream) - not surprisingly as it was a La Niña and a moderate to strong one at that in which La Niñas typically reduce MJO activity as compared to warm ENSO events (El Niño) or neutral. This is particularly the case, historically, when the La Niña is in a central based state that I've mentioned in prior posts. This is why weak eastern Pacific based La Niña events are often touted as the most favourable to blocked patterns. Studies have also shown that major SSW events, which have proven to develop high latitude blocking if downwelling occurs from the stratosphere, occur most often in easterly QBO/La Niña or cold ENSO neutral winters and less so westerly QBO or El Niño seasons. However, there are exceptions as always with any teleconnection or driver as other chains of events may have led to such in that given season. MJO phases can have differing correlations dependent on ENSO event too as well as the time of year.

    This is a simplified analog diagram on the height anomalies one should expect for each MJO phase during a particular ENSO event. This does not go into the month by month variation that can occur but gives good guidance - there's more in-depth analogues out there going by month. Nor does this guarantee anything as there's other drivers that can significantly change the patterns. Gotta love meteorology and the weather!




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    What's so great about early spring? It is the most miserable and featureless time of year weatherwise.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    ECM mean is much better than the OP. So there's a still a bit of hope. What's your thoughts on that Syran?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭sicknotexi


    Seems like the last few op runs have been at the bottom of the envelope potential wise, going by the means. Get the impression that this is still far from resolved taking into account the differences between the models.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    😂😂😂😂 you have one poster saying cold never comes til after December and another saying by Jan it’s almost Spring. Gotta love opinions. Gonzo is right though. Jan and Feb are always our best hopes for cold, Feb / March best for snow.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭zisdead


    The hint was in the word "Spring". I'm not getting bogged down in this but every phrase in the English language has positive connotations when spring is used. It is a universal truism in our language. Well apart from one person 🙃


    Wikipedia is also your friend if you want to look it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Lads were riding scramblers on the lakes in the Midlands

    Was epic alright



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Champagne Sally


    I just love this thread, fighting over weather none of us can control. It’s very uplifting after reading the covid thread, so appreciate the charts and inputs from posters. The roller coaster continues, thanks so much guys.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Comparing the ECMWF 0Z to the 12Z and the wild swings in positioning of the Ridge / Jet and Lp's is stark. The only constant is the main theme of much cooler weather then of late leading to frosty nights and cool day time temperatures with the mildest days just getting up around 7 to 10C. Both GFS and ECM showing it to get colder again towards next weekend with probably the most chance of some wintry precipitation. Earlier signs of windy/stormy weather are greatly reduced on latest runs but I would have very little confidence in the accuracy of the models at this stage given the wild fluctuations in output.



    The UKMO 0Z and 12Z for comparisons, earlier run would have been very windy in coastal waters given the tight isobars, 12Z less so but fresh. Daytime temps just around 6 to 8C on those charts with a considerable Windchill and sharp overnight frost.








  • Registered Users Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Met Eireann says the end of next week will get "even colder and windy and wintry"

    It's not the end yet and some places may see some snow by next weekend. I'd actually think the East and maybe counties like Meath and Kildare and Wicklow. Dublin too of course. Will be interesting around 25th or 26th. Pity not a month later.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Has everyone disembarked the polar express?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,190 ✭✭✭pad199207




  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭Little snowy old me


    Greetings to all. And so starts another roller coaster season of 'will it snow or not?'. Talk of colder weather has prompted me to log on. We will see what the next few days bring. Even a subtle drop in temperatures would be welcome. The mild weather has been nice but we are into third week of November now so time for more seasonal conditions now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭almostthere12


    To my amateur eyes Sunday 28th to Tuesday 30th is looking like the best bet of proper winter weather at the moment but too far out to be accurate!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Was gonna say the same thing here's hoping anyway that Christmas will be a cold but dry day



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Reading over the past 2 to 3 pages you would think we are in the middle of winter with some great charts and excitement earlier in the week, we certainly got off to an early start this year on the rollercoaster, and this makes a welcome change compared to most years when we often have to wait till January to see a sniff of anything wintry appearing in the charts. We are still in the Autumn and another 10 days before the golden gates of winter swing open. We have at least 4 months of model watching ahead of us wishing for white gold to fall from the sky.

    Back to the models, from this evening a noticeable drop in temperature. The coming week will feel cool but temperatures will be fairly close to average compared to what we've been used to over the past 5 months. High pressure will also dominate for much of the week with plenty of dry weather. There may be a touch of ground frost in a few sheltered inland locations.

    By next weekend it may turn briefly colder again with some wintry showers or longer outbreaks of rain, sleet and snow at times, most likely rain to lower levels along coasts and some snow possible inland and over high ground.

    The first week of December could see us back into the very mild and relatively dry pattern that has been with us all summer and autumn with temperatures back into the low to possibly mid teens.




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,605 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    EC clusters this evening provide more positive light for prolonging the risk of cold weather (if that's what you seek) with any kind of Euro heights on most vanishing through late November into maybe early December. What this means is that even with only a mid-Atlantic ridge or a displaced Azores High into the Atlantic, low pressure systems can dive from Iceland towards the continent and give numerous "ninja snow" events, commonly called slider lows. On their western side, the winds can veer northerly or easterly helping to advect cold air into the country although again, with the lack of proper high latitude blocking, don't expect a severe cold airmass being streamed this far south. These events are largely marginal with inland areas such as the midlands or high ground favoured for the highest risk of sleet and snow. Think of the likes of December 2017 and late January 2019 for recent comparison.

    I must note too that there is a small signal for a stronger MJO push of phases 5-6-7 through early December which could end up reinforcing blocking to develop to our NW sometime in December but this is unlikely. What is most likely is that high pressure will continue to sit out to our west and give toppler type events consistently with milder days separating them as the airflow around the high turns around more to the tropical Atlantic. Typical stuff we have seen time and time again in many winters. Still nothing clear cut to suggest very cold weather.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    ECM and GFS keeping the cold theme going, plenty of frosty nights in there, still showing wintry at times over the coming weekend and early days of the following week.






  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    My brain hurts. Any chance of translating that into layman speak?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Basically means it's trending colder again than it was. The past 10 days have had

    MILD VERY COLD MILD COLD MILD COLDER

    Each day its showing different outcomes. It certainly going to get cold. There is potential for real cold but still only potential. It can get wiped away in 6 hours



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    I remember on 22nd December 2010 cavan had a maximum temperature of - 9.9c now that's cold



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,605 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Favoured to be largely on the cool and changeable side with average to below average temperatures for the rest of November and maybe into early December with little signal of anything notably cold or snowy due to weak external drivers. However, much more "seasonable" than of late.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭pauldry


    The latest CFS Christmas forecast on Gavs videos showed a cooler pattern alright. Roughly

    Cool and windy at end of week

    Dry with mist n drizzle but a bit milder early to mid December

    Cooler and changeable in run up to Christmad. Windy with maybe wintry showers in North



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Who's gav, hopefully it's mild wet and very stormy for Christmas



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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭almostthere12


    An easterly has appeared towards the end of the GFS run this morning!



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