Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Larbre34 · 24-11-2021 6:15pm

Thats Kilkenny thing is nothing but an internecine scrap ignited by Phil Hogan loyalists. Its already over.

Una Duce, una voce.

24-11-2021 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216928#Comment_118216928

Your outrage at a short cut being taken which helped persuade a majority of gp's to accept a contract in the states and publics interests is impressive alright...

But this side of the thread does not believe it's your main priority here or that of some of your comrades

That'd be the impasse,that and the fact we fully expect no charges versus what looks to us like a lamentable 'great hope' from the twitterhateri of the opposite happening

Justice of course will be done

Larbre34 · 24-11-2021 7:11pm

Emphasis on the Comrades.

Brucie Bonus · 24-11-2021 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217245#Comment_118217245

I want accountability, not poor/pretend excuses.

You cannot, I repeat, cannot, point to any post attacking Varadkar unless it references something he did or said. If he behaved honestly and competently you wouldn't see 'sides' you don't like. This is all on Varadkar, not the people who tell us what he did nor the people unhappy with what he did.

I seriously doubt anyone is betting on Varadkar going down. The scandal is he leaked confidential information to his friend, the head of a rival union and his part, FF and the Greens did **** all. The criminal investigations just show's them all up.

He did it. There were no consequences. Too late.

24-11-2021 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217743#Comment_118217743

What’s this rival Union malarkey? I gather that you’re not a fan of Leo, FG and the Government.

24-11-2021 8:57pm

Lol 👇

Brucie Bonus · 24-11-2021 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217790#Comment_118217790

Read up on it. Its all there. Private negotiation between one union and the health department. Varadkar leaked the document to his friend the head of a rival union.

24-11-2021 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218038#Comment_118218038

Yeah we know that

But lol the agreement was for ALL doctors

No cardinal sin getting the persuading for the rest off to a flying start in the interests of the state

It worked

(Unless you hate Varadkar as much as you do that is)

BackOfMyBag · 24-11-2021 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217890#Comment_118217890

i will bet good money , none of our resident gdpr experts who were sure there were data issues with publishing leos messages with otoole and same wit zappone wont come speeding in here to try and claim there would be issues surrounding that lad killian and the village magazine private messages though lolol

Brucie Bonus · 24-11-2021 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218073#Comment_118218073

It was a private negotiation between the department of health and the IMO.

In your opinion 'in the interest of the state'. He breached a trust and had no role in the negotiations.

24-11-2021 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218038#Comment_118218038

So, you agree with excluding almost half of the country’s GPs from negotiations?

I’m not a fan of Trade Unions, but would be very aggrieved if a high percentage was excluded from negotiations with the Government.

Brucie Bonus · 24-11-2021 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218272#Comment_118218272

You asked what the 'rival union malarkey' was. Now you know.

They weren't excluded. It wasn't a free for all. It was a negotiation between a union, its members and the dept of health.

Unions represent their members.

24-11-2021 10:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218314#Comment_118218314

It might help your understanding if you actually read up about it. They WERE excluded until Leo decided to share a document, already comp,teed, with them.

Brucie Bonus · 24-11-2021 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218425#Comment_118218425

They had no business being there. It was a private negotiation.

Yes Leo decided. Not the dept of health and not the IMO. Thats why he's under criminal investigation.

24-11-2021 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218458#Comment_118218458

A private negotiation that excluded a large number of the country’s GPs.

blackwhite · 24-11-2021 11:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218458#Comment_118218458

you really are clueless 😂

The contract being negotiated was to be applicable for all GPS, whether members of the IMO, the NAGP or not members of any organisation.

The only reason that the NAGP were being held out of the negotiations was a antiquated regulation that stated that the IMO was the only body allowed to negotiate on behalf of GPs.

GPs aren’t employees of the Govt - they are either self employed, or else employed by others. As such, for years competition law prohibited them from negotiating anything collectively with the Govt, as they are all independent contractors.

The IMO isn’t really a trade Union when it comes to GPs, it’s a trade organisation similar to ISME or CIF. It’s a trade Union for non-consultant hospital doctors, but for GPs they aren’t employees, so it’s not a real Union as such. For decades they were the only trade organisation for GPs

In the Bertie years the Govt wanted to negotiate the GMS contract for GPs, so brought in an exemption to competition legislation to allow the IMO negotiate on behalf of all GPs - whether or not all GPs were actually IMO members - but because there was no other industry association for GPs there were no major objections at the time.

When the new GP contracts were being negotiated we had 2 GP industry associations, the IMO and NAGP, but due to the competition rules the IMO were the only one to be legally allowed join the negotiations - even though NAGP members and non-alligned GPs would ultimately be bound to the same contract if they wanted to continue to provide GMA contract services to medical card patients.

Anyone advocating for the NAGP to have been excluded from knowing what was being negotiate is literally advocating for maintaining a monopoly - but they’ll perform the mental gymnastics in order to point score against any politician they don’t like (or in your case one that you’ve a worrying obsession with)

Larbre34 · 24-11-2021 11:07pm

Underrated post.

Suckit · 24-11-2021 11:36pm

Rival Union or not, All Doctors or not, Leo (in particular) was not negotiating with every doctor in the country.

Nor were the NAGP negotiating with every politician or person in the country.

The contract that Leo shared was still being negotiated. If anyone was to share it, they needed (among other things) the permission of the head of the relevant dept to sign off on it. Which didn't happen.

The document was not Leo's to share with any doctor in the country that he saw fit. It is not how the elected representatives are supposed to or expected to act, and it is illegal to share confidential documents that are still under negotiation.

25-11-2021 12:11am

👆

Nothing Leo did in relation to the document he shared has been shown to be illegal

The outcome of course was a success

McMurphy · 25-11-2021 8:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213829#Comment_118213829

The YFG members from the KK branch are only featuring in the news because of calling for Varadkars resignation.

What was the reason they asked for him to resign? Oh yeah, it's because of his criminal investigation, which they (the members of KK YFG) believed is likely the factor behind SF polling almost identical to FF and FGs combined polling numbers. One would hardly expect me, or rely on me mentioning that fact to understand the relevance of the KK YFG story to this thread FFS

Posted by Marine Layer

Regarding the branch not being closed,its on the public record that YFG hq require the members to vote for a new committee in that branch

Hardly possible if the branch was disbanded

It isn't

I'll assume that since you're lecturing others on reading posts or getting their facts straight, that you'll correct your own and indeed that you'll know where I garnered the above public information

Jesus, - You just misquoted me yet again Marine Layer,(4th time in a row now?) the post you quoted never mentioned anything to do with "the branch being closed or shut down". Here it is again.

Ah here, anyone with even a slight bit of knowledge or interest in this case would be fully aware of why those members of YFG were terminated, (for calling for Varadkar to resign due to his criminal investigation) and why it was in the news again. I refuse to believe you weren't fully aware of that, as you were commenting on it last week.

Not "the branch" the members of the branch marine layer, the members who spoke out calling for Varadkars resignation. My post is up there in pixelated form, you even directly quoted it, so I can't understand how you got that wrong.

25-11-2021 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219201#Comment_118219201

I didn't say you said the branch was closed did I ?

So how is that a misquote?

I merely reminded you in a reply to your post what is the case

You're so melodramatic

Furthermore,you are making up your own reasons why the positions were terminated contrary to the public record

Do you make up many things in posts ? Two here ,fake melodrama and fake facts contrary to the public record

McMurphy · 25-11-2021 10:13am

Posted by Marine Layer

I didn't say you said the branch was closed did I ?

So how is that a misquote?

I merely reminded you in a reply to your post what is the case

So why are you ascribing words to me I never said?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213829#Comment_118213829

Hardly possible if the branch was disbanded

It isn't

I'll assume that since you're lecturing others on reading posts or getting their facts straight, that you'll correct your own and indeed that you'll know where I garnered the above public information

Pretty clear cut here marine layer, there's no denying what you were at here. Own it.

Posted by Marine Layer

Furthermore,you are making up your own reasons why the positions were terminated contrary to the public record

Do you make up many things in posts ? Two here ,fake melodrama and fake facts contrary to the public record

Eh? I'm basing my "own reasons" on the tweets and news articles on "public record"

Why the need to lie? It's been covered in this very thread.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/call-for-varadkar-to-resign-made-without-consultation-with-young-fine-gael-members-1214750.html

In a statement issued on Sunday, the Peter de Loughry branch of Young Fine Gael said Mr Varadkar's position as leader is "untenable" due to an ongoing Garda investigation into his handling of contract negotiations with GPs and the contacts he made with the leader of one GP group led by his friend, Dr Maitiú Ó Tuathail.

The statement, which called on Mr Varadkar to step down as both Tánaiste and Fine Gael party leader, said the investigation is "impacting the good governance of the country at a time of national crisis".

In a tweet the next day, the branch claimed Young Fine Gael had "terminated the branch committee and vacated all of its positions".

https://twitter.com/KKYoungFineGael/status/1460332797873336328?t=PZ0hOzGQvWQ0EThLGnK1uw&s=19

And here.

https://twitter.com/KKYoungFineGael/status/1459942419689005064?t=HQsGuMmueKccCYcdkLNcPw&s=19

Those Kilkenny YFG resignations were followed by further resignations, you are aware of this, you've been discussing it earlier up thread

https://m.independent.ie/news/fine-gael-youth-wing-hit-with-slew-of-prominent-resignations-41063553.html

Three-high ranking positions have been left vacant after Dylan Hutchinson, the national secretary and director of policy, Gary O’Donovan, the Dublin regional organiser, and Audrey O’Leary, the Munster regional organiser, resigned their positions from Young Fine Gael.

In a statement, they said the National Executive is “is dysfunctional and the thoughts and opinions of all are not welcome” and said recent decisions made without “discussion or consultation” has made their positions “untenable”.

Why did they resign? Here's why.

The resignations come days after the Kilkenny youth branch of Young Fine Gael called on Tánaiste Leo Varadkar to resign as party leader. The branch later said that members of its committee had been removed by Young Fine Gael, however, a spokesperson for Young Fine Gael said it received notification from both the secretary and chair of the branch, announcing their resignation.

You are deliberately misrepresenting posts, you are deliberately misquoting people, and you are outright being disingenuous.

I wouldn't mind only ALL of this has been covered in the thread already.

CDarby · 25-11-2021 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218595#Comment_118218595

Quite an informative well written post.

1 question though, and it's regarding the investigation.

Why, (assuming everything was as kosher as your post would suggest), would the members of our national police force upgrade their preliminary investigation, (after weeks/months of presumably painstakingly scrutinising this whole fracas) into a full criminal one, and not only that, but deem it serious enough for none other than the NBCI to take care of the investigation?

My job requires me to have an open, non judgemental mindset on scenarios, but things being as rosy in the garden as you're portraying, yet being criminally investigated at the same time, does not add up.

By the way,

The only reason that the NAGP were being held out of the negotiations was a antiquated regulation that stated that the IMO was the only body allowed to negotiate on behalf of GPs.

I don't think that will be relevant in the unlikely event this is in front of a court.

Just my opinion.

blackwhite · 25-11-2021 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219585#Comment_118219585

My understanding (from reports in the media) is that sharing such a document would be a criminal act IF the person wasn't duly authorised to do so. The question then becomes, is the Taoiseach legally allowed to authorise himself to share such a document. I'm not a lawyer, but my view would be that the Taoiseach probably is, but that's just my view on it.

I'm assuming that NCBI are involved due to the high profile of the case, and it ensures that, whatever the outcome, the Gardai can't be accused of having ignored it or not taken it seriously because it involved a member of the Govt.

My 2 cents on it is - before any negotiations there should have been a change in legislation to allow NAGP be party to negotiations also. Failing that, NAGP should have been kept informed of what direction negotiations were moving, but I don't think that the manner Varadkar chose to keep NAGP in the loop was proper. They should have been either formally sent updates via Dept of Health, or the IMO forced to consult with them during the negotations (unlikely given the animosity between the two organisations at the time).

25-11-2021 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219479#Comment_118219479

Going off on one and the usual repetition I see

You'd swear the repetition has some influence on 'the great hope'

Get your facts straight (if you want to be taken seriously)

Its on the public record that the KYFG twitter 'statement ' was made without the agreement of the branch members but purported to be from the branch

Thats a no no

CDarby · 25-11-2021 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219646#Comment_118219646

Thanks for your prompt reply blackwhite.

It certainly is an interesting, and an unprecedented scenario in Irish politics.

I'm of course of the purely personal opinion that professionally, and politically Leo Varadkar is damaged due to this.

Critically? Too early to say for sure, but I would certainly suggest he's punctured below the waterline.

Cosgrave et al should stop making public statements about it though for obvious reasons.

That's my two cents.

25-11-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219585#Comment_118219585

None of us are privy to the investigation but a plausible theory in my view is resources to deal with the frustration reeked upon the inquiry by the instigators constantly changing their statements

The latter from an investigation point of view must make them very unreliable

But then...if the objective is to frustrate and waste time,for other reasons anyway,then justice isn't a priority

Beasty · 25-11-2021 11:28am

Closing this thread for a while. Recent posts have created an escalation of tensions. I need to work through some of the comments and sanctions may follow

Beasty · 25-11-2021 2:49pm

OK, re-opening the thread. Drop all the who said what when stuff. If you feel the need to clarify your own position (and not someone else's) please feel free to do so and move on

Any questions PM me. Do not respond to this post in thread

blanch152 · 25-11-2021 6:22pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/paddy-cosgrave-alleged-to-have-hacked-rival-event-company-court-documents-say-1.4736677

The bould Paddy is in more trouble. Maybe I missed this article being posted here already, (and apologies if I did) but the allegations are quite astonishing.

"The chief executive of the Web Summit Paddy Cosgrave is alleged to have hacked a rival Irish event company, according to claims in newly-filed court documents."

This is court evidence and court documents!! These aren't just allegations in a tabloid magazine. They strike to the heart of Cosgrave's credibility.

Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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