Scam

UPS Scam

I had an overdue invoice reminder for 120.72 Euro from Ballymount Dublin.

There is an account number and my name an address are on the letter.

I have never had need of the services of any carrier, no details, just an invoice and account number.

No email address either.

Could this be some kind of error or is it a scam?

A physical letter yes. I emailed quite a number of possible UPS contacts before getting a reply, in fact I even visited a branch in town and left the letter with them. They knew nothing about it.

I finally got a reply yesterday from the person who's name was on the letter. It appears it was a bill for something returned to the UK. an item I never saw or handled if it is the order I have in mind.

I am awaiting more details from UPS, who say that the overdue invoice was an error and has been dropped.

So, an overdue amount is allowed to continue with no initial invoice relating to an order and account number that meant nothing to me?

Something stinks to high heaven.

I could have paid the invoice, an account number and sort code were on the letter, so if I did would the money be reimbursed automatically? Would they find the excess when the accounts are done?

I have asked the character who sent the letter for the full data chain they have linking the charge to my address as shown on the letter. The only order I can think of that it might relate to was a rotavator ordered from Amazon UK and refused by me because the carrier whoever it was, wanted 150 euro duty. The rotavator was already priced higher than the identical item which I bought from a company in Meath even before the duty was applied, so someone turning up at the door wanting even more money seemed like someone was having a sick joke.

The supplier of the returned unit knew nothing of duty charges or the order number.

The replacement rotavator ordered through the Meath company was sent from the UK also and it cannot be related to that as the order was placed after the initial billing date on the UPS invoice.

But it is a major catastrophe!

Many, many times in the past I have found that I have been on the receiving end of financial errors.

Now you would thing with genuine errors the score would be 50% in the others favour and 50% in mine would you not?

Lo and behold, I would put the rate at more 98% and 2%.

I did incidentally refund the errors I made whether the "client" knew or not.

Fundamentally people must have a right to know exactly what they are being charged for. A bill that had gone into arrears without my knowledge was not a trivial mistake, to compound that with a reminder with no reference that I could apply to any known financial deal, in fact nothing apart from my name and address was valid as far as I knew.

To pay this would be lunacy, even if it was a genuine debt, how do I know that the debt was correct, I have no way of relating 170 Euro to anything.

Do you know that in the UK people have lost properties because of debts they knew nothing about. There was a not so recent court case about a builder who deliberately waited until the owner was out of the country before putting a trumped up claim before the courts. He gained title to the property.

Bills need to be totally clear, not tied to a pile of meaningless digits anyway.

You miss the point.

For a period I was in debt for an order I had no knowledge of. I have only the companies word that it was a mistake and they were not chancers looking to boost their funds.

I did not phone the company, I paid a visit to my local depot who knew nothing.

I did not tell them there was an error either, I was not in a position to, I still am not in a position to. I only have their word that it was an error, but what if I had paid, would the error be picked up, can you honestly say that someone dealing with the payment was not in full knowledge of the repercussions of their actions.

I have the original invoice now, they emailed it to me, the account was "generated" by UPS.

When I wanted a Bank account opening, I had to make a personal visit complete with passport and proof of residence.

If they wanted to bill me they could have asked for a signature could they not? What's the problem wiith this, it's a fairly universal method of indicating agreement to a transaction?

Do you work for UPS??

???

That means nothing to me. I am not a "dude" by any stretch of the imagination, why would you think I was?

If I had paid the overdue amount, would it have been refunded then?

If I ignored the letter, or was out of the country what would happen?

The dude bit I understood, You are totally and completely wrong there, but cacks?

Do you not find conventional English a more precise means of communication.

Anyway if you have a genuine point to make in connection with the topic, please suggest why my thinking is not sensible, logical and followed by actions that are in an appropriate sequence.

The only thing I did not do that may have short circuited some actions was phone the company.

I pay for every call and every bank and largish company I phoned in the UK and Ireland has involved long waits and an inane routing system that means the phone is picked up and I am being charged for the time spent going through the system, finally finishing up with some musical garbage costing me for every minute. The most notable call was to Lloyds bank when I lost internet access to my accounts in the UK. It was three am when I finally got through and the entity on the other end seemed to think my attempts at getting through were no big thing compared to his twelve hour shift!

Two companies provided direct lines and were picked up, one in the UK, one in Ireland. So now I just use email or the companies website to communicate.

The UPS website would not allow me to create an account as the information furnished did not include a valid customer number.

Do you really propose taking everything at face value and settling up without question?

Even after spotting mistakes or scams, it can be too late to alter the outcome.

For instance there are a lot of poor eejits not a million miles away that believed the scam that was Brexit, is it not better to nip things in the bud at the sign of something suspicious and assume that people do not value or practice personal integrity as a default approach?

Putting things into a legal perspective, there was no indication of who to contact or what action to take in the case of a dispute, I had no initial documentation, that came this morning.

So as far as I can see this was an attempt to permanently deprive me of my money,

That is theft.

No, it leaves open the fact that if they were not informed and I had payed, they would in all probability have stolen my money.

The fact that I check everything and look for problems before I pay out does not mean others do.

Far too many companies try to con and deceive, you need to be on your toes all the time.

I have just, less than ten minutes ago had the phone put down on me by another fraud doing "European research" from Florida. I merely asked him who the research was benefiting and asked him if it wasn't targeted advertising, the second question triggered the end of call.

Why be so reluctant to be open and truthful, what's the problem?

You mean it's wrong to post about something that looks like a scam now?

I really find it hard to follow the logic. Why is it wrong to post about what looks like a scam?

Just imagine for a moment that someone at UPS is under pressure to clear arrears or get the cashflow up, are these events unlikely?

Now assuming I am a clapped out doddering old goat who thinks UPS is a rebrand of his mail order Viagra supplier and I paid up, not questioning the transaction.

Would that qualify for a scam post?

Now let's go one stage further and suppose that the ambitious account filler at UPS actually suspected, or knew that something was afoot, which if UPS deliver the odd item or two from the UK to Ireland, they would surely be only too well aware of?

Anyway if they carried on regardless and processed the payment, would that qualify for a scam post?

It isn't often I have reason to request details of an invoice that was superseded or paid, but I can assure you that when I have they have been only too clearly identified as paid or "Not For Payment". The invoice I received was for an amount that was overdue and gave no details whatsoever as to what the overdue amount was for!

What constitutes a "scam" in your opinion?

You have missed the point.

My projection was a very possible one indeed, yours relating to your aunt is a different matter I would think. I guess the good "lady" would be a hermaphrodite, as to the "if" bit, I wouldn't like to dwell on it or even estimate the probability and repercussions.

I really do not think you understand, your statement suggests not.

Well can I suggest that you save everyones time in future and take the time and effort to read and understand the post you are responding to.

It seems pointless to come up with a nice simple "Error was made, you pointed the error out. they corrected it IMMEDIATYELY." if it does not relate to the post.

No matter how many times you continue to repeat it, it will still be wrong.

Your statement is incorrect, if you took the trouble to read what I posted initially, you would hopefully recognise that.

Maybe you should simplify things for yourself and post the questions before you reply with the answers, then you might possible get the answer right?

One has no choice but to move on with my life, it's dashed cool this morning, but Kerry isn't at the cryogenics temps yet.