United Rugby Championship announced, beginning September 2021

icdg · 29-10-2021 6:31pm

I don’t think it’s suggested that the Shields themselves would disappear though - only that the use of them to determine Heineken Cup qualification would.

RichieRich_89 · 29-10-2021 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087534#Comment_118087534

Some of Connacht's best results over recent seasons have come against the other provinces.

Bazzo · 31-10-2021 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090742#Comment_118090742

The op seems to misunderstand the IRFU's position on this. They don't care about Connacht having a harder time because they have to play harder teams, because the interpros are worth good money to them, but they do care about the guaranteed champions cup place for one team from each shield.

I'm pretty sure the shields would remain but champions cup qualification would revert to the top 8 teams in a combined table.

Burkie1203 · 31-10-2021 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087534#Comment_118087534

Connacht might have an argument if they weren't getting thumped at home by the Dragons.

Pussyhands · 01-11-2021 12:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096925#Comment_118096925

Irrelevant.

sydthebeat · 01-11-2021 9:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100123#Comment_118100123

not irrelevant at all. connacht need to box clever and pick their battles when it comes to irish derby games.

that being said they absolutely must be taking points when playing outside of the irish conference.

each shield conference has at least 3 competitive teams . after 5 rounds no conference has more than 6 points between 1st and 3rd , and the SA conference looks like it will be very competitive.

all of this is great for connacht

Cookiemunster · 01-11-2021 9:51am

If the only games that counted for final conference position and the Euro spot were the inter conference games, then yeah, it would be really important to target those games. But all 16 results count for conference placings. So if Connacht continue to lose to the likes of the Dragons, that means that it's almost irrelevant what they do in the interpros as the other 3 won't be losing those types of games and will be off in the distance before the interpros even come into play.

molloyjh · 01-11-2021 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100123#Comment_118100123

Is it? If Connacht had won against Cardiff and Dragons, even without any TBPs, then they would be on 19, the same as Munster and just 1 behind Ulster. The reason Connacht are 8 points behind the other provinces isn’t because they are unfortunate enough to have to play them, it’s because they lost 2 games against Welsh opposition that they should have won.

Pussyhands · 01-11-2021 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100715#Comment_118100715

Yes it is irrelevant.

Connacht play the best team twice in a season while everyone else bar Munster and Ulster play them once.

Imagine it's the last game of the season, Connacht and Edinburgh are tied on points and only one of them can get Champions Cup. Edinburgh then play Zebre while Connacht play Leinster.

Imagine if the Premier League had Leeds playing Norwich 3 times a season while Burnley had to play Man City 3 times a season. It's completely unfair. What happens in the other games is irrelevant.

thomond2006 · 01-11-2021 12:58pm

There's no way of doing a "fair" regular season.

Playing each other once and is never, ever going to a runner.

Playing each other home and away is impossible given the inclusion of the SA teams and travel etc.

awec · 01-11-2021 12:59pm

Anything other than a pure league format with home and away against every other team is obviously biased but unfortunately they can't fit a full fixture schedule in now because there are too many teams.

But even before the conference system they still used to gerrymander the fixtures so that certain fixtures would take place at certain times, it was always a bit questionable but that's just how it has always been.

molloyjh · 01-11-2021 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101051#Comment_118101051

Connacht beat Leinster in the RDS last season getting the full 5 points from the game. Sure they lost at home to Ulster and Munster either side of that, but that was the story of their season. They lost at home to Ospreys after that as well. Other losses at home to the likes of Edinburgh and Scarlets, neither of whom beat another province home or away, were ultimately the difference.

Ulster played Leinster twice last season and came away from both games with nothing. In the end they got 8 points from the inter pros. Connacht got 6. Yet Connacht still ended up 19 points off the pace of the other provinces. That literally cannot be explained by the inter pros. It can only be explained by losing games outside of the inter pros that the others were winning.

Connacht always lift their game against the provinces and are always competitive there. The majority of the difference between where they are at vs the other provinces is in their games outside the inter pros.

Lost Ormond · 01-11-2021 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101283#Comment_118101283

yes unfortunately we cant be provided with a full home and away schedule because there is more teams than weekends to allow that but a league format where everyone doesnt play each other home and away isnt biased. its natural in plenty of competitions.

its a multi country league and certain fixtures are played at certain times for common sense logistical reasons and to guarantee revenues in a multi country league. that isnt questionable its logical.

Red Silurian · 01-11-2021 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101365#Comment_118101365

The only way we will ever be able to get back to Home and Away fixtures with the ever increasing number of teams we have is if we create 2 divisions and allow promotion and relegation between them. I can't see any of the unions going with that idea though

Lost Ormond · 01-11-2021 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102140#Comment_118102140

That wont happen unless you got more teams playing in Scotland, Italy, South Africa or added more teams from other countries but none would add to competitiveness of league now and yes unions right now wouldnt go for it.

Jump_In_Jack · 01-11-2021 5:10pm

I don't see why there couldn't be a simple thing like the shield matches could be worth half.

instead of LB=1, TB=1, W=4, D=2, L=0.

could be LB=1/2, TB=1/2, W=2, D=1, L=0 and halve the points scored for and against and the tries scored for and against.

OR, make the non-shield matches worth double.

That way it's like playing each province twice, but wouldn't change the overall league table disproportionately.

thegreycity · 01-11-2021 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102799#Comment_118102799

That could potentially ruin some shield matches as teams make tactical decision to rest players for them and only risk half a loss.

Blut2 · 01-11-2021 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102140#Comment_118102140

And in this scenario theres a very good chance Connacht would be in the second division.

Red Silurian · 01-11-2021 11:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102986#Comment_118102986

There's an equal chance for every team (except maybe Leinster) to be in the second division

For the record, I'm not in favor of having a 2 division setup, I don't think it works in professional rugby, in fact I don't even think it works in professional sports

Blut2 · 01-11-2021 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104559#Comment_118104559

Thats not really true, though. With the exception of the odd successful season here or there Connacht have consistently finished last of the four Irish teams over the last 20 years, very often in the lower half of the league table. They're the only Irish team that would likely find itself in any potential second division regularly.

I also agree that it wouldn't work though. I was just pointing out to the Connacht fan that even that option - of going to two divisions to allow for home & away games - wouldn't work out well for Connacht.

Red Silurian · 02-11-2021 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104800#Comment_118104800

Not a Connacht fan, just thinking about it logically is all.

If you wanted every team to play the every other team home and away in one season it's one of the things you could do. Otherwise it's a 30 game season which is just completely unrealistic from a player welfare point of view.

I like the current setup, save for having the Scottish and Italians in the same shield

aloooof · 02-11-2021 3:43pm

With no URC games on during the International windows, I wonder if this will begin to impact squad sizes. Connacht could be beneficiaries from that.

StevenToast · 02-11-2021 3:43pm

You could work it like the 6 nations....

Play every team once.....rotate the home and away every season...

Cookiemunster · 02-11-2021 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107464#Comment_118107464

That's what's being done now with the teams outside of your conference. None of the unions are going to agree to lose money making derby games though. What we've got is a best of both worlds compromise.

TaurenDruid · 02-11-2021 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107464#Comment_118107464

That's a very short season! Eight or even only seven home games a year? Would see season ticket sales falling.

StevenToast · 02-11-2021 4:21pm

Sometimes less is more...would make people get off their arse and go to home games....more premium product....

Cookiemunster · 02-11-2021 4:34pm

We already have less. Each team only has 9 home games, compared to 11 in the old Pro12. They've scheduled matches not to clash with internationals, so more of the top players will be available for more of the games and supporters won't have to choose between the two.

Red Silurian · 03-11-2021 12:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107684#Comment_118107684

It's been near-full crowds this season so far, although you could argue there is pent up demand

Burkie1203 · 25-11-2021 10:14pm

UK banning flights from South Africa.

Cookiemunster · 25-11-2021 10:26pm

The latest UK rules for returning from a red list country seem to be that if you're fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR you don't need to quarantine.

The teams who are out there will have to rebook their return journies via another country, but it shouldn't affect any matchesm

Although on further investigation the rules seem to be different for Wales so Cardiff and Scarlets may be in trouble.

Downlinz · 25-11-2021 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223631#Comment_118223631

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-list-of-countries-and-territories

No sure if that is out of date but it explicitly says everyone has to book into a quarantine hotel even if fully vaccinated when a country is on the red list.

Cookiemunster · 25-11-2021 10:47pm

Either way the two Welsh teams will have to enter quarantine. Munster will have to return via different route as they traveled via Heathrow.

And it looks like if they stay and play the Lions they won't be able to enter the UK for the Wasps game.

Burkie1203 · 25-11-2021 10:48pm

https://twitter.com/rugby_ap/status/1463985842456825874?s=20

Burkie1203 · 25-11-2021 11:17pm

Simon Thomas reporting that Cardiff are trying to leave SA tmrw. No word on Scarlets yet.

bennyl10 · 25-11-2021 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223631#Comment_118223631

Rugby isn’t a listed elite sport so from red list means quarantine

need to get out ASAP

lawrencesummers · 26-11-2021 10:37am

The stupidity of taking a 4 week holiday during the season should come in for some focus now if two weekends of games have to be rearranged because the calendar is already a problem.

No need for it especially when covid is still around and there was always a risk of cancellations.

bennyl10 · 26-11-2021 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225130#Comment_118225130

The stupidity of an international break which benefits players and fans?

sydthebeat · 26-11-2021 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225130#Comment_118225130

For the sake of meritocracy and credibility of the league then the international break is absolutely necessary.

Covid being an external factor is immaterial

lawrencesummers · 26-11-2021 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225140#Comment_118225140

A break is fine.

4 weeks is to much, and these games need to be played anyway, so players have the same minutes to content with as it just lengthens the season.

pickarooney · 26-11-2021 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225140#Comment_118225140

It didn't benefit any of the players who aren't internationals and who are playing no rugby for months on end.

Tigerandahalf · 26-11-2021 11:00am

I presume the S African teams will have to move back upto Italy in the new year and stay for a few months to complete all the games.

I was looking forward to seeing some games played down there in the good weather.

Such a shame.

AdamD · 26-11-2021 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225166#Comment_118225166

Yes but international players would have actually been available with the new schedule, not sure how you're missing the point here.

StevenToast · 26-11-2021 11:02am

Time to knock this competition on the head.

Cookiemunster · 26-11-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225227#Comment_118225227

Well isn't hindsight a great thing. In other news the rest of the teams in the league and their players all play this weekend. I'm looking forward to Connacht v Ospreys tonight and Leinster v Ulster tomorrow.

lawrencesummers · 26-11-2021 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225249#Comment_118225249

Its not hindsight.

it was mentioned plenty.

lawrencesummers · 26-11-2021 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225236#Comment_118225236

They were not available this weekend if you didnt notice.

Are they going to be available for the rescheduled fixtures?

For the year thats in it not much foresight was needed to see that taking 4 weeks off was a bad idea.

OldRio · 26-11-2021 11:27am

It seems for some the league cannot win no matter what they do.

Blut2 · 26-11-2021 11:36am

The poor league organizers, this must be gutting for them. It doesn't bode well for any games being played in SA this season.

thomond2006 · 26-11-2021 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225393#Comment_118225393

Bingo.

There's too many games, none of the top lads play.

There's too few games, none of the youngsters play.

Larbre34 · 26-11-2021 12:08pm

The spread of this new variant certainly won't be contained in a short time. I'd say we can pretty much rule out the South African teams being able to both host and travel for the remainder of the season.

The one chance might be to revive the idea of the SA all coming to continental Europe and quarantining to host their "home" games in Italy or whatever.

Mind you, after the cruel and unusual situation which applied to Argentina recently, where their players lived out of suitcases and in bubbles for 17 weeks, I can't see the SA club players agreeing to leave home for four or five months, especially as the situation worsens in SA with their families at risk.

United Rugby Championship announced, beginning September 2021

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