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ESB eCars

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,939 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Here's hoping. We need more hubs. There's only one ecars hub and that's at Mayfield and still doesnt work correctly.


    I wasnt aware, I assumed like most JPF/PFJ comments it referred to the Irish groups. I dont remember why I was banned it was years ago - I thought you were the/a modmin over there hence the italics. Apologies in that



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,295 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    I'm an admin (not founder) on the Irish EV Owners page, but it's not "my" group. The group dates back to the beginning of EV ownership on the island and I only got involved 6-7 years ago.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Would be nice to see one of those Tier 2 sites with 2 150kW units... or better still 2 of the 200kW units with 2x CCS & 2x CHAdeMO plugs.


    A little 4 car hub, 4 CCS & 4 CHAdeMO cars can charge in any configuration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭innrain


    Back from Kildare Sopping J14 Hub

    The fat charger was used on one side so I went to test the eface units. SOC close to 40% Started on the back connector wouldn't go more than 60kW. Moved to the white one and jumped to 80kW. So the black one is current limited and giving the low voltage of model3 there is no point in trying to get high speeds. Probably 800V packs would get close the 150kW. There was an ID.3 on the other unit, on the white connector as well. Checking the app both units ( mine and id3s) had the black side unavailable for charging. However, after a while theirs got back available which made me think that mabe it is a desired behaviour. Because they were there before me, their speed dropped below a value. So basically my theory is that if a car chargers at a power about a set threshold will make the other plug unavailable and once the power drops below this threshold the black connector becomes available again. I decided to wait until 90% and test the theory. Around 87% the power dropped below 45kW and the black connector became available on my unit. Unfortunatelly the moment coincided with ID3 disconnected and I can't say for sure it is because the power on my side was below the threshold or more power was available because ID3 disconnected. Will need more investigation. However, if I'm correct and the load management is making black side unavailable while a car charges \>50 kW there is no point to hopping for other improvements.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    We'll have to start complaining about easygo soon enough too. A lot of talk over the last year or 2 about eir phone boxes for chargers. Musgrave group deal for chargers. Big investment recently.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The plan for the EV charging station rollout is limited to what the grid can provide in that area.

    In many areas there may not be the necessary extra capacity to supply EV chargers until there is a grid upgrade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,311 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    In some areas yes but if you take Dublin airport as an example I'm pretty confident they can manage to spare more than 50kW

    Same for the M1 services, the north-south high voltage interconnector literally runs along the side of the road


    I would imagine in many cases that neither ESB or the site owner is willing to pay for the required grid connection


    This is why I think the model they're using in Norway is great where several charging providers might colocate to share the cost of grid upgrades

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    The north-south interconnected runs there, but they can't connect into it. ESB Networks have a site https://www.esbnetworks.ie/network-capacity-map where you can see the installed and currently available capacity of the MV distribution network. If there's available capacity, then they should be able to connect in without any grid upgrades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,816 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Just thinking about my local area and the charging options.

    Terenure - 0 public charger

    Rathgar - 0 public charger

    Rathmines - 1 charger in a Tesco carpark that locks it's gate at night and you can only stay for a maximum of 2 hours (patrolled and you must pay to park).

    Ranelagh - 1 public charger. In a clearway so you can only park there at certain times and it's very expensive to pay for parking.


    So that's local to me. There is a charger at the local petrol station but that is constantly in use. Yesterday there were 2 leafs (1 was a taxi) parked there and an ID3. Today as I drove past there was an MG taxi charging. Last Friday night at 11 there was a taxi charging. I have never seen a charger so busy.

    The ranelagh one is baffling. Loads of houses with on street parking and no driveways in a very affluent area and there is 1 charger. How can you encourage EV uptake when the network is useless?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    North south I/C isn’t built yet. I think you are referring to the 110kv double circuit that runs along the M1.

    this is 110 thousand bolts which is unsuitable for the 10kv required at the motorway sub station that would be transformed down further to feed the chargers.



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    How come then Tesla are able to have 16 150kW chargers on the M1?

    Theres no excuses anymore for eCars…..



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Could be that there’s no more capacity left on the system in that area until the distribution network is upgraded, as the Tesla site is using all availability.

    Also I would presume future housing and industry electricity demands would have to be factored into the availability of power for new EV charging sites.

    Im only pondering this though, I don’t actually know.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Pretty straightforward answer really, one of those companies installs chargers to sell cars. The other installs chargers to sell electricity. If your business is selling electricity then you want to time the capital expenditure correctly and ensure that a given charge point has a high utilisation factor. If your business is selling cars, then you want to ensure your chargers have a high availability factor.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Very good point, but don't eCars not have a remit to install the infrastructure regardless of viability or not? hence the handsome state funding they receive.

    Sure up until recently there were not even selling the electricity!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭zg3409


    In reality ESB ecars want hand outs for all new chargers. They have delivered very few new sites, instead swapping some existing AC units for DC units. They have said they don't intend providing new AC sites, presumably as they don't make money after the maintenance costs are factored in. In the UK the exact same Irish organisation have won tenders and have rolled out more when paid to do so. Here they don't seem interested in anything that might require any grid upgrades. On the M1 for example multiple 50kW units even load shared or limited to maximum service station power would be far better than single DC chargers with queues. Indeed there is not even back up AC chargers next to the DC chargers. In many ways it's the government's fault and the greens don't seem really interested in EVs. Some of that grant money for new cars and home chargers, should be put into tenders for hubs at locations with grid connections ready. I can see future hubs being where high voltage lines meet motorways, but if course you need the local transformers and grid connections to exist. Easygo are hiring staff and plan big, hopefully it will wok out for them as their customer service is better than average. Easygo have said their business model is mostly single DC chargers max 75kW, but they have 2 units next to each other in kinnegad.

    Post edited by zg3409 on


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The state funding was an application to the Climate Action Fund. Essentially the request was we want €10,000,000 to build a network and here's a map of what we propose to do, we'll match it with €10,000,000 of our own funds. We'll install this over the next x years. I'm not sure our government put any obligations on them to do so in a particular way or to roll out the infra in a particular order.

    I'd much prefer tendered charging with obligations and service level agreements in place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Other operators would still be relying on ESB-time in a tendered SLA arrangement. Their Glassworks site in the UK would have had local supply done by others. The press release stated it was done with Siemens Mobilty as partner, so can't be sure if ESB did anything other than win the contract :)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    The €10m is a joke for a country of this size, by way of comparison the UK have allocated a similar sum for each Motorway Service Station in the country

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,042 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    We don't have a dedicated fund for charging infrastructure, it would be up to any organisation to apply to CAF for funding. Clearly eCars think the amount they asked matches their ambition for a network. I'd love to see the likes of Applegreen and Maxol apply to CAF for their own charging hubs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭NyOmnishambles


    Aside from logging issues with chargers through the app, which feels like screaming into a black void

    Is there anywhere else I should register issues with the new 50kw chargers when I come across them?

    There are a few handily dotted along my regular cross country route which would be handy to have working when the rapids are busy

    I have checked my history and have successfully charged at units in Kenmare and Waterford so it is not my car that is at fault



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,939 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Their customer service is awful. I'm still awaiting a response to a dispute I sent over a year ago.

    It took multiple emails and a phone call to even get them to send out the fob. Terrible company to deal with, at least ecars always answer you.

    I only ever use their free chargers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Phone the helpline while at the charger and they may do reset while you are there, and conclude it's not working and send out an engineer to test it. It's more likely to result in a repair, but I have seen dodgy chargers for more than a year not fixed until they fully broke.


    I also recommend putting a comment on plugshare app so others are warned, as typically the esb app says all is ok, even when they know the charger is broken. They only mark a charger as broken on esb app after an engineer visits, tests it, cannot fix it, only then will it be marked as down on esb app, so if it breaks on a Friday it may show ok all weekend until engineer visits on say a Tuesday.


    I know many Zoe owners have issues at AC chargers where the charger has a bad earth, the Zoe cares and won't charge, but others and the engineers can charge so all those faults remain unfixed for years. At least Zoe owners can put a comment on plugshare and other Zoe owners can avoid that charger.


    Another place to try push esb us to get in touch with Irish EV owners association. They have regular meetings with esb and they bring up issues to top management. If you had a list of good & bad chargers, dates and exact times, account number, they might do a look into issue. That said Zoe owners failed for years to get their problems fixed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭NyOmnishambles


    Thanks for the detailed reply

    That doesn't really bode well for the immediate future though, it does seem like it might be some cars caring more than others as you mentioned as I have used some of the new units with no issues

    The last charger I was at there was a guy already there having the same issue and he rang them, it is still showing as available and I rang them 2 weeks previously about a different unit which was still available and still a problem last time I was there

    I will update Plugshare though, that is a good suggestion, thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭innrain


    Don't read to much into the state of charger shown on the map. Recently we discussed the issue of map showing the state of the chargers unrelated to their actual state. Like in use when they are free and the other way around, unavailable or faulty and someone is charging, all combinations you can think off. Browse few pages back. It wasn't always like this but right now, the map or the "show only available" filter are not to be trusted.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    That doesn't really bode well for the immediate future though, it does seem like it might be some cars caring more than others as you mentioned as I have used some of the new units with no issues

    At the moment it seems like cars from PSA (e208 etc) and Renault are the pickiest, other cars seem to be more forgiving. It could also just be down to experience, I know there were problems with the Kona and the old DBT chargers at first, but I think those models have all been replaced by now.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    More ecars app shinanigins. I'm charging at frankfield but it says CHAdeMO is also charging. Poor guy who was before me thought he was charging this long while but left with nothing.

    He did go walkies while charging though, so not great form.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭innrain




  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Pretty much. When I arrived it said CHAdeMO was charging for the past hour, when it was not. CCS was unavailable, but that was at least because it was plugged into that id4.

    Wrecking my stats so this is. LoL



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,311 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    When I was learning to drive, I got some good advice about what do expect when you see the indicators flashing on a car. It went a bit like this:

    Instructor: "what does it mean when you see that car indicating left?"

    Me: "they're about to turn left?"

    Instructor: "no, it means their indicator light works"

    I think similar logic can be applied to ESB Ecars app: The only thing the charger status can tell you is that there might be a charger there

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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