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The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    I have plenty to contribute.

    Justify the cost of each and every property that you want to be subject to this rebuild grant, (note that it is a grant scheme, not compensation) the AG is clear that there is NO LIABILITY on the state for this, anything that is allowed is discretionary



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Public servant taking early retirement,


    Department official said mica campaigner ‘just wants to cause a scene’


    Mod: Link to online rag removed. Please read the forum charter.

    Post edited by muffler on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,459 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    No bother.

    Actually we (mods) had a discussion about this point not that long ago and decided to retain the ban on that pathetic excuse for an online paper.

    As I said numerous times in the past we have standards here in the Donegal forum which is more than can be said about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Yes I agree its a ridiculous argument, I was in buying alcohol in Asda a week ago, I guess that also makes me a tax cheat by that logic...

    That is great that you have somewhere to stay during the rebuild.

    The added stress of the higher rents is going to be a nightmare for so many as this goes on and I can only see things getting much worse on that front.

    And totally agree on the regulation, enforcement side of things, im actually amazed there isnt a bigger deal being made about this side of things yet. Real change is needed on that front, something like this should not be allowed to happen again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    I've been turned down again for Option 1. Resubmitted a revised engineer's report. That's the third time they've requested further information. It's been three and a half months since my application was submitted and I'm no further forward. Living in a cold, damp, mouldy house coming into winter. The council are trying to force the cheapest option on everyone and not the best engineering solution.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭dzer2


    Not picking on you or anyone else. But if the cheapest option gives you a sound house to live then it's the right option, if it doesn't then it's a waste of money and time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    That's the problem. The cheapest option will not give me a sound house. That's why my engineer is fighting it.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,539 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Donegal County Council should have absolutely no involvement with this decision making.

    Post edited by muffler on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I won't vote for either of them - and I don't know anyone affected personally.

    You might be surprised how many people who are not affected are disgusted by the shenanigans that are going on.

    I'd say our politicians - irrespective of party - are decidedly jittery about the consequences at the polling booth...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Is it fair to say the electoral consequences are not all one-way, though? I just notice people in other parts of the country drawing comparisons to people renting at the present, who similarly have nothing to show by way of permanent assets. And I think the campaign has lost the argument about house size - the only people convinced that there's no issue around rebuilding houses of similar dimensions are the campaigners.

    I know the campaign has produced the occasional Donegal person living in Dublin to say "I'm not personally impacted, but fully support the campaign". But folk sort of know that's not a spontaneous upswelling of support.

    So, tbh, an overly generous mica scheme could cost plenty of votes elsewhere, from people who feel housing needs in their regions and the needs of young people in general are being ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    There are currently around 8,000 homeless people in Ireland. You can multiply that by at least two if this situation isn't resolved.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Mc Conalogue is likely gone,being re-elected the last time was a fluke, McHugh, if the rumours are true(health issues), wont be standing next time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,423 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Id say a conservative estimate would be around 7000 homes, so id put the figure more around the 20,000 mark at least (avg 3 per home).

    Then the country would have a homeless crisis!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Turns out, the main supplier of defective blocks didn't even have planning permission for the block yard. There's been a massive dereliction of duty by DCC in all of this.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    And the plan is to give all 16,000 of them a 2,400 sq ft house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,459 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Mod/ Cut it out. You know fine well that isn't the case so stop baiting people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭firemansam4



    You may only see larger detached houses on the news when it comes to mica, but there is also a massive amount of smaller houses, and houses in housing estates that have mica as well, and the scheme which is being sought is to repair or replace like with like, nothing else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Whole affair is just like Ferry waste, carry on regardless



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,423 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Yeah, no accountability for anything in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    A reported cap of €138/sqft...that's what it cost in 2017. This isn't an enhanced scheme.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,408 ✭✭✭jj880


    Thats seems very low.

    1 of the main things I am interested in is will this still be left up to the home owner to manage.

    As I understand it in the pyrite scheme it was all managed by the housing agency. Home owners didnt have to deal with builders and were not left at their mercy for gouging.

    Post edited by jj880 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭doc22


    I don't have a crystal ball but builders will price up to gov limits

    Post edited by muffler on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,459 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Doc22 I removed one of your posts and edited the other. Dont post speculative comments about anyone. You named one individual and a family. Just leave personalities out of it altogether and we'll all get on great..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,459 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Apologies to DrPhilG and jj880. I had to remove your posts as they were quoting posts I had edited/deleted. Unfortunately this new shambles of a site wont allow me to edit only the post that was quoted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,565 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Long interview on Radio 1 there with Paddy Diver.

    From what I understood of it, the suggested limit of €420,000 p/u and €138/sq/ft is being treated as an insult and an affront to those affected by the mica damage and that €150 will be required by them.

    He suggests a massive protest(s) will be brought to bring Dublin to a halt ahead of Christmas, in the event that those figures are brought forward to actual redress scheme.

    Might I suggest that the large number of people that are affected would want to begin to be very wary of those that they have speaking for them and that it will raise more than a few eyebrows around the rest of the Country if those affected do, in fact, reject the equivalent value of 100% rebuilding of a 3,000 sq ft detached home as some sort of insult.

    Such a strategy, if overtaken and pursued by those like Paddy Diver, create the very real risk of them being left with nothing. And, that the threatening tone of many involved in this towards politicians and public bodies, will destroy the whole effort.

    Ordinary householders need to understand what a win looks like here and also understand what taking the piss looks like to the rest of the Country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,408 ✭✭✭jj880


    Right now material costs are sky high and people are rightly scared that even if they get into the redress scheme they will be left with a massive bill from a gouging builder. Nevermind what the costs will be when houses actually start getting rebuilt.

    There has to be some kind of controls put on this. Families cant be expected to fight with builders because the government has come up with a sq foot cost.

    If 138 euro per sq foot will do it then let the housing agency stand behind it and oversee all works themselves like they did for the pyrite scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    So just one example. A hard working person bought a second home as a nest egg for when they retire. They have been paying mortgage payments since by renting out to a young family trying to get on the property Ladder.

    Now the young couple will have to look for another house to rent in Donegal which is mica free which will be near impossible and the person who bought the house for retirement will still have to pay a mortgage on a heap of collapsed rubble.

    Now tell me who's taking the piss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    How do you work out that €138/sqft will get you a 3,000sqft house? Have you included the demolition/disposal costs? Storage? Rent over the time out of the house?

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    I would have little pity for anyone who bought a second home on a mortgage, second home in my opinion is something you buy with your own money, I know that might not be everyone's view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,539 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Sorry @muffler you might want to edit my post from his quote too then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Always number 1


    I live in an estate riddled with pyrite. Our house hasn't enough signs of pyrite to be remediated but we can't get a pyrite free cert so we can't sell.

    I feel sorry for anyone caught up in the Mica blocks scandal. They shouldn't have to suffer due to mistakes that weren't of their making.

    I'm curious and not trolling when I ask, when these people took out house insurance, how much of a rebuild value did they put on their policy? If the Govt are putting a cap on the amount that they will cover then surely the insurance companies should have to pay towards it too? Is that too simplistic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Insurance companies have a 'get out' in the policies - structural issues caused by defective materials are not covered. The problem is, people don't know that the blocks are defective until it's too late.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Orbital, Supergrass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Always number 1


    Insurance companies and homebond have a lot to answer for..



  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭doc22




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    These people deserve some sort of help from the state but nowhere near the degree of funding that's being offered. They should either be offered housing in modestly sized dwellings in state built housing estates or a loan scheme payable to remedy defects repayable long term and cleared on the death of the owner.

    The government is giving far too much here, they need to substantially reduce the cost to the taxpayer. If this results in a general election, then so be it. It'll be a landslide win when the facts are put before the voting public at large. Any political party that would try to back up these ridiculous claims would suffer badly in the rest of the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Unreal Paddy. %100 correct about the obnoxious reporter at the start. Thank God for someone who speaks from the heart and not from there a##.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Yeah. Just forget about the house you worked your boll#$ off to build or buy and in alot of cases working away from home missing out on alot of family occasions and move into an estate in God knows where or pay another mortgage on top of your existing mortgage to repair something that is100% not your fault.

    Really brilliant proposals. I would say alot would jump at this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭doc22


    I don't see why rental properties are attempted to be covered in the new scheme. The mica building should be sold to the state at the site or building market value and redeveloped into the states/council stock, the state shouldn't be suring up someone else's investment property



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,459 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    doc22, you didnt heed the warning in the OP about the use of the phrase "blank cheques" so you are now thread banned. Do not post in this thread again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭dollylama


    Have any further details emerged on the suggested levy being imposed on material suppliers? I saw a brief mention of it in one of the weekend papers.

    A levy on building materials would be a sensible and fair way to recoup some of the inevitable cost to the tax payer for the redress scheme but it too could be a hard sell, particularly in the city regions where building is still booming for now. Plus, wouldn't a levy make the redress rebuilds even more expensive?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,539 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Why? If I bust my balls working so I can build a €500k house on a nice piece of land, and then the whole thing falls apart because the council and the government failed to enforce regulation on materials, why should I suffer loss?


    Likewise if I work my ass off to buy an investment property. If the government are responsible for this mess, why should I be left out just because I worked hard enough to buy an investment property?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,539 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    To an extent I agree with some of this.


    Fight the government all day long. But making the ordinary people of Dublin suffer is a terrible idea and will only massively sway public opinion more against the cause than towards it.


    Fight the disinformation out there, help people to realise why 100% is fair, and let them come on board with support and then they'll lobby their own politicians to help.


    Attack the ordinary people of Dublin every few months, make them miss medical appointments, flights, job interviews etc and they'll all hate the protesters and their cause even more.


    Its a stupid idea from top to bottom. Diver has heart, no doubt. This movement wouldn't be where it is without him. But he is not a good public representative. He is too emotional and dramatic. The fella Michael Doherty, PRO of MAG is a much more considered and informative speaker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    How's your geography? The worst affected area,Inishowen is larger in area and population than Louth, most of these houses are on family land with outbuildings/farmbuildings,

    It's rumoured that the block company have employed the services of Irelands most infamous spin doctor and these type of posts smell of her



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    If they tailor the protest to the city centre ,Google and Facebook HQ and Dublin 4 it'll mitigate the effect on ordinary Dubliners



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,539 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    But they seem to have no intention of doing that. All I keep hearing is blocking the motorway, blocking the airport, bringing the city to a halt etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,267 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    If they start doing this whatever support they have will be lost especially when they seem to be telling the government to stick the more than generous offer of €420k per house up their hole. Mentions of 4000 square foot homes don't go down well to the ordinary Dublin resident either, it's basically a fook off palace fit for a family of 10.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ahusband


    You do realise that Louth is the smallest county?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,565 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I think appraising the information discussed in various media throughout the day, it seems that the proposed scheme amounts to 92% redress.

    Eminently fair at that, I would say.



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