Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Faugheen · 28-11-2021 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233825#Comment_118233825

Not an excuse in my opinion. Ulster were in the exact same predicament.

If there was a real concern over game time then players should have been released to the clubs, or at the very least more should have been released earlier in the season when the test players were getting more game-time than usual.

Look at Munster allowing Ben Healy to play for Garryowen to give him a run-out before flying out to South Africa. Many were of the opinion he should have been in the Ireland camp ahead of Harry Byrne. Leinster are a lot stricter than Munster are at releasing players.

Of the forwards, Dooley and Vakh were making the big impacts and it's no surprise when you consider they were getting plenty of game time with their clubs earlier in the season. Furlong as well, but he's been playing the last few weeks so you would expect that from him.

How much game time have O'Briens Jimmy and Tommy had? Or Nick McCarthy? Scott Penny? James Tracy? Max Deegan? Ed Byrne?

There are no games during international breaks and there are no 'A' team cups this year and Leinster need to adapt if they want to keep everyone fresh. Wrapping everyone in cotton wool isn't the answer.

aloooof · 28-11-2021 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235298#Comment_118235298

“Many were of the opinion [Healy] should have been in the Ireland camp ahead of Harry Byrne.”

Were they, tho? A minority would liked to have seen him in Ireland camp, but I’m not sure it was at the expense of HB.

aloooof · 28-11-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118234558#Comment_118234558

Fair enough. I’ve spelt out pretty plainly that the stats and results really don’t bear that out over the last 3-4 years.

Good win for them last night, mind. 😉

Faugheen · 28-11-2021 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235801#Comment_118235801

Yes, I think so, considering the form and playing time Healy was getting compared to HB.

Blue4u · 28-11-2021 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118234574#Comment_118234574

A loss is a loss....I don't think anyone is over reacting especially when it is against a team like Ulster

I do think long term if the URC is going to stay the same Leinster will need to review the squad

Blue4u · 28-11-2021 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235298#Comment_118235298

I would have liked to see Healy come in for Sexton as I felt it was a waste bringing in Carty. But I don't remember many mentioning to replace HB with Healy

El_Duderino 09 · 28-11-2021 6:40pm

Harry seems to have been anointed as the next big thing but I dont see his performances as being a million miles ahead of Healy. I'd imagine Healy played more minutes last season and did quite well. I'd be happy for them to fight it out in camp against each other but Healy wasn't given the opportunity.

I also think Harry didn't impress in his few minutes on the pitch in the Argentina game, or the Ulster game, so it's easier to look back in hindsight and say Healy should have been in Ireland camp. Maybe the coaches can see a massive gulf between them in training and potential development. But I don't find it that easy to see. A lot of noise has been made around Harry, (not suggesting he has made any of the noise himself) and he has had some good performances, but i think he doesn't have a huge body of work to justify his status above Healy at this stage.

TRC10 · 28-11-2021 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236343#Comment_118236343

Harry attacks the gainline in a way Healy just doesn't. Yes, he has made a fair few errors over the last couple of games and it looks to me as though he's trying very hard, probably too hard. But he has picked up a lot of injuries over the last year and is seriously lacking in match sharpness. Harry put in some excellent performances during the 19/20 season before he started picking up niggles. I've seen serious promise from him to suggest that the potential is there. I think he just needs a consistent run of games (which he hasn't had in over a year) and to just settle down and focus on the basics first.

I feel like one can tell when a good player is playing poorly, rather than a poor player just being poor. If that makes any sense

Healy is a very steady player in the Ross Byrne mould IMO. Big lad, solid defender, great kicker from hand and from the tee and a good passer. Maybe a slightly higher ceiling, I could see him being capped at some stage.

aloooof · 28-11-2021 10:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236903#Comment_118236903

I’d disagree on the Ross Byrne vs Healy comparison tbh. I think Byrne is a significantly better defender. And Healy a much better passer, who plays much flatter. That’s my impression of the 2 at least (both obviously at different stages on their development).

Thrashssacre · 29-11-2021 12:12am

I think the bath game is a great opportunity too unleash HB, big stadium with plenty of open space and bath have been woeful this season.

sydthebeat · 29-11-2021 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237776#Comment_118237776

They were beating Exeter until the 76th minute this weekend gone.

Yes they have had a torrid season so far, but they ain't gonna lie down and have their bellies tickled

Blue4u · 29-11-2021 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238132#Comment_118238132

Exeter have been fairly poor all season as well.

The Premiership is not a high quality competition. You have Leicester who couldn't win a game last season top and closely followed by Sarries who spent last season in the second tier. In reality give it a few months and Sarries will be significantly ahead of the rest of the bunch. Bath are bottom of the bunch and hence why the Premiership want to stop relegation. Clubs like Bath cannot survive if they get relegated

It will be interesting if Bath even put out a first team or just fire out the kids as they rest players, it's not like they expect to qualify to the knock outs

sydthebeat · 29-11-2021 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238422#Comment_118238422

Its because there is no relegation that i expect bath to put out as strong a team as possible in their first game.

lose that (which the should) then they will put the kids out for the remainder. Away to LARog is daunting for any team.

im just making the point that i wouldnt be expecting leinster to put out anything but their strongest possible team for the first HC game in the aviva.

In doing so, that probably Ross starting with Harry benching, if, as expected, Sexton isnt fit in time.

Blue4u · 29-11-2021 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238482#Comment_118238482

First game is at home v Bath. Last year they tried to start HB v Northamption(wasn't it) but got injured in warm up. I would expect they will try the same and then pikc R Byrne v Montpellier away.

Now the above is all a guess but the concern would be R Byrne gets an injury v Bath, then you have H Byrne with zero european time, or very little, the starting 10 v Montpellier away. I doubt anyone will see Sexton till right before the 6 nations when he gets a run out.

Luckycharm · 29-11-2021 4:11pm

When was the last time Harry actually started a game, need to see if he can control a game.

He needs to learn that not every play has to be a wonder play. He is actually playing the polar opposite of his brother he is playing too flat giving himself no time, hence his knock on and his kick straight to touch under pressure. He needs to learn when to be flat and when to sit a little deeper.

Carty should be ahead of of both Byrnes for Ireland until he proves himself.

Deegan since coming back looks alot bulkier but far less mobile, he does not look as quick or agile. He used to make nearly a line break a game now just tries to bosh over lads.

That game showed we really need a replacement for Fardy (same as Dragons game). We need a hardened grizzled 2nd row, Tracey is also so far behind Sheehan/Kelleher. Not sure Penny is big enough for the very top level, decent URC player/ some euro games but not sure has the bulk unless with 2 beasts at 6 and 8.

Clegg · 29-11-2021 8:08pm

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1465342680834224128?t=3frKmuRisauxEqYGyGNjzA&s=09

29-11-2021 11:14pm

Very tough situation and good that he is getting a second opinion. A time out seems to have benefitted Doris and if that's what's needed no doubt Ryan will be advised to do the same.

Was particularly concerning in the Argentina game that there was no clear head impact immediately before he was taken from play, albeit the medical team is constantly looking back at collisions and making subsequent calls so it's entirely possible something happened that wasn't picked up by the cameras.

Must love hardship · 30-11-2021 12:25am

Looking forward to the selection this weekend.. and to see what response we get before Bath.

Connors looks very good when introduced last week... Hard to See him get straight back in at 7 ahead of VDF but could take the bench spot.

You'd imagine Baird will come Into the 2nd row and with Ryan out, fardy gone and Toner having less of an impact around the park( he fell off a number of tackles saturday) he is going to be needed to really step over the next block of games. The lineout needs a massive improvement from Saturday..

Id imagine a strong team something like.

Porter Kelleher Alalaatoa

Baird Moloney

Doris Ruddock Vdf

Mcgrath H Byrne

Lowe Ringrose henshaw larmour

Keenan

Sheehan, Byrne, Healy, Connors Penny, Jgp , R Byrne, J o'brien

FrannoFan · 30-11-2021 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242742#Comment_118242742

Be surprised if Henshaw starts. Will be needed in back to back European games and after starting against Argentina that would be 5 weeks in a row something we rarely see Internationals do. Frawley was impressive last week. I'd imagine he will keep his place.

Luckycharm · 30-11-2021 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242742#Comment_118242742

I presume you have Doris playing at 8? Would have JGP start ahead of Luke who passing was shocking on Sat, thought his hand had been hit for Henshaw try but it wasn't.

Must love hardship · 30-11-2021 4:44pm

I actually picked Doris at 6 and ruddock at 8. Just cos ruddock started at the weekend at 8 and Doris has been named player of the November Internationals at 6. Id keep Doris 6 personally.

Re scrumhalf. JgP is being assessed during this week so might not be available. Id agree though I am a big fan of mcgrath over jgp but he wasn't great at the weekend..

Frawley probably also ahead of henshaw as per frannofan

AdamD · 01-12-2021 11:30am

Frawley was brilliant on Saturday, was like a one man mission to drag Leinster into the game at times.

stephen_n · 01-12-2021 11:35am

My only concern about Frawley is his defense. Again he seemed to fall off a few tackles and get his positioning wrong. It’s something that can always be improved but it would concern me against top teams.

Interested Observer · 01-12-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249818#Comment_118249818

Agreed, Leinster were so poor but he was the only player who made anything happen.

molloyjh · 01-12-2021 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250182#Comment_118250182

I thought Adam Byrne was good with what little he got. Molony had a decent outing as well. Frawley had a lot go right but as Stephen said, he also was very poor defensively at times. If he can sort that out then he’d be really pushing for a place in our first choice 23.

Leinster didn’t have a good game, but let’s also keep things in context. That was effectively Ulsters first choice team. Almost all of their starting XV have either played a majority of available game time or were senior players whose game time has been limited through injury. A decent number of Leinsters side on the day have played relatively little rugby this season and it was primarily a 2nd/3rd string side. And with a bit more composure in the last quarter we could actually still have won it.

awec · 01-12-2021 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250716#Comment_118250716

It was nowhere near our first choice team.

McGrath, Henderson, O'Toole, Vermuelen, Reidy, Stockdale, Baloucoune, Addison all missing.

It just wasn't as weak as the B teams we usually send to the RDS.

Luckycharm · 01-12-2021 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118246031#Comment_118246031

Ruddock was poor at 8 and isn't an 8. Doris is an 8 who also plays 6

El_Duderino 09 · 01-12-2021 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118252073#Comment_118252073

I'd agree with that and I would play then in their preferred positions with Ruddock at 6 and Doris at 8. But I think Ruddock won player of the month last year playing mostly at 8 so he is capable of playing well at 8. Not many players covered themselves in glory so I wouldn't use the Ulster match as much of a yardstick of anything.

Is it way too soft on the team to point out that now is not the right time to peak anyway. Now is probably a good time for the lowest point in the energy cycle. Building form here to the end of the euro qualifiers, break for six nations and foot back on the throttle for the end of the season. Nobody will have planned to lose to ulster or perform so poorly, but it might not be as bad as it seems. Time will tell.

Luckycharm · 01-12-2021 5:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118252132#Comment_118252132

Just had a look 6 starts at 8 around this time last year when we had alot of injuries, 8 starts at 6 towards end of season.

More starts at 8 than I remember and mainly against the weaker teams.

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=RR759362

Luckycharm · 01-12-2021 5:44pm

Doris 6 starts at 8 1 at 6

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=CD872704

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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