The Irish protocol.

Pedantry and semantics are all this strain of unionism has left. That and outrage, endless outrage. Politicians mostly with low competence, elevated to disproportionate importance in the world by conflict, have nothing to offer except more of the same.

Juvenile point-scoring about unimportant details while ignoring reality is the stock in trade of those opposing the NIP. The same tactic can be seen among hard Brexits. No argument left to make so endless circular nonsense. Pin dancing.

You can quibble about Francie's use of "unionism" by posters until the cows come home but that's all it is, quibbling, Nearly two pages challenging the semantics of a sentence by one poster but dead air on the substantive issue because you cannot argue with his central point.

Francie is correct, "Unionism" tried to/is trying to take down the GFA. Sammy Wilson and the ERG still hope for no deal and a hard border on the island.

Ridiculous idea that this can be separated from unionism which has been represented by the DUP (First Minister) for some time now. The UUP has been an irrelevancy for a decade.

Donaldson, as First Minister relentlessly speaks for NI and about "the people of NI" when he's only speaking for unionist NI.

As long as I've been alive, I've heard unionists speak about "the people of NI" when they meant protestant people - unionists.

This has never been more obvious than in Donaldson's ever more ludicrous attempts to undermine the NIP. He had no mandate to speak for "the people of NI" yet he does. Every day.

Unionism wants it's cake. So does downcow.

The attempt here to masquerade as some kind of voice of reason is both grating and irritating. Total waste of energy.

And you're still at it.

Everything unionism has done since the Brexit referendum has been indefensible and that's just within the unionist community, never mind for the rest of us. Limbo dancing on pins won't change that.

Your response ignored everything I said, lobbed in a straw man to create a bit of fog and tried to force me to down your rabbit hole. No thanks.

"you are factually correct when you say “Francie is correct, "Unionism" tried to/is trying to take down the GFA.”

but only if this statement is also factually correct

“republicans are still trying to murder people to end the gfa because it recognises the legitimacy of Northern Ireland”

im ok with both statement being fine or both statements being try’s but misleading."

Neither statement relies on the other to be true. They are not connected in any sensible way. They are either accurate or not. One does not balance the other.

This interminable insistence that every substantive point must be balanced by a wrong committed by the other side is the only tactic you have and it gives you the cover you need to avoid answering direct questions. It's in plain view throughout the thread.

It's not normal downcow, in my world, to have to declare your position on terror. It might be in yours. The Ireland I live in has never been a Provo Ireland. Never. This is a fundamental and wilful misconception by unionists but it feeds your narrative. When images of the Shankhill bombing appeared on my screen on the day it happened, my reaction was not to point immediately to a similar loyalist atrocity for a bit of balance. I just thought about families destroyed and people dead before their time.

You're wired that way, as are many NI nationalists. I'm not and I would suggest that the vast majority of Irish people outside NI are the same as me.

It is not normal to think that way but perhaps explains why you cannot present yourself here in good faith. I'm sure you think you're fighting the good fight but unionism has given you very little work with.

Unionism's approach to Brexit in the here and now is the problem, not some pointless debate about dissident republicans who can't tie their shoeleaces without the PSNI or Gardai knowing about it.

That's unionism as represented by the DUP, the dominant party in NI politics and Donaldson when he speaks for "the people of NI", the unionism that turned it's back on all "the people of NI" when they supported Brexit against logic and common sense. Unionism that tried to and its still trying to impose a hard border against the wishes of everyone but the same people who voted against it and refused to sign it.

Many here have been trying to do engage with you reasonably but it is clear there is no point.

You insist on a football match.

It's very tiring and you're not fooling anyone. Just wasting time and energy.

Pretty startling narrative begining to emerge which fully explains Unionists fears about the Protocol. That for the first time it has outperformed the rest of the UK..why? Because it is aligned with the rest of it's natural hinterland and the rest of the EU.

The fear of the Protocol, is the same fear they had of the AIA and the GFA. They thought Brexit would right those 'wrongs'.

The Protocol does not 'shatter the Union' as Jim and Jamie etc contend, it shatters Unionist self confidence and their death grip on supremacy. And the truth there is that they are the reason there is a Protocol in the first place.

Lots more popcorn to consume on this one.

It doesnt change the fact that your first instinct, that you immediately without any other thoughts followed through on, was to respond with a personal attack instead of trying to address any of the in my opinion very astutue observations from the post. Most likely due to you realising it hit quite close to home although you will never admit it.

Trite and expected. Not going to entertain the pedantry so this is the last attempt

The real issue for unionism is not the NI protocol or the GFA.

The real issue for you downcow is that all the old tropes Paisley et al trotted out to make ALL Irish people the enemy are worn down to a stump now. I was never your enemy. I can confidently say the same for most Irish people. If you don't believe that, I think it simply underlines my point. Your mindset is fixed 30 years ago.

The priests are gone, nearly. They still have some power but we're working on that. A UI would end it. Protestants thrive in our society and are an integral part of the state, the HSE delivers better outcomes in Ireland than the NHS does in NI, the roads are better and we don't eat children.

The real issue for you downcow and the DUP, is that all the horrors preached about, all the reasons for scaring the kids are gone. We've moved on but you haven't. Interestingly, the DUP now make common cause with those in Irish society who would take us back into the arms of the catholic church, believe gay people are broken souls and support an anti-abortion position. How mad is that? The very people Papa Ian denounced, sharing ideology with the DUP.

The real issue for you downcow is that moderate unionsists who thought that their rights in these areas were protected by being in the UK, now see those rights denied by the DUP but delivered in the south. They have have traveled widely across Ireland before and since the GFA and have seen the changes for themselves. Scales have fallen from eyes but unionist rhetoric continues as if this is 1975.

The vast majority of Irish people outside NI do not exist in the perpetual state of whataboutery which infests debate about NI and never have. This is also a problem for you downcow because when they try to engage in open debate, your responses are conditioned, fixed.

Trying to wear moderate clothes does not change this.

And that's me done. Good luck.