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JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Theories

    1) Oswald shot and killed JFK and acted alone

    2) ?

    Haven't come across any credible alternative, so far only attacks on the main theory or fluff. Nothing coherent. Nearly 60 years, countless opportunities, plenty of people on their death beds, etc - nothing. If you know of anything, feel free to present it.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Oswald shot and killed JFK. That much I can agree with. he acted alone? not so sure. It seems odd to me that he was murdered by someone with mob connections that only had a few months to live.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Ruby actually lived for another 3+ years. He didn't have cancer when he shot Oswald. Wasn't diagnosed anyway.

    Certainly adds to the case for conspiracy alright but theres nothing to suggest he was a hired hitman.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the 1979 report seems to think there was something in it

    ... Ruby's shooting of Oswald was not a spontaneous act, in that it involved at least some premeditation. Similarly, the committee believed it was less likely that Ruby entered the police basement without assistance, even though the assistance may have been provided with no knowledge of Ruby's intentions ... The committee was troubled by the apparently unlocked doors along the stairway route and the removal of security guards from the area of the garage nearest the stairway shortly before the shooting ... There is also evidence that the Dallas Police Department withheld relevant information from the Warren Commission concerning Ruby's entry to the scene of the Oswald transfer


    source :




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The whole thing was strange and odd from beginning to end, it doesn't mean some alternative situation occurred. If someone can give it a shot, fine, but we are pushing multiple decades now and nothing, zilch.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    no, it doesn't mean that some alternative situation occurred but it also doesn't rule anything out. as for your assertion that "when the witnesses were alive, they were interviewed, we have all that information preserved." that just isn't true. Unless you believe the Warren Commission got it right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Yeah, its all a bit thin though. No one can explain why Ruby was in Western Union a few minutes before he shot Oswald, 80 minutes or so after Oswald was already supposed to have been transfered. Ruby had no access to phones, walkie talkies etc so he had no way of knowing.

    He either got into the basement via the car ramp when a car came up or a cop let him in. He knew a lot of the cops.

    The DJ John Peel was living in Dallas at the time and managed to blag his way into the police station the night Oswald was arrested. So security all round was poor.

    Its difficult to argue the HSCAs case vs hard evidence such as below. Rubys Western Union receipt, time stamped at 11.16am. And hour and 16 minutes after Oswald was supposed to have been moved.

    Also, he shot Oswald in the stomach. Very non mafia style.




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I'm not ruling anything out at all, but I am saying that alternative theories are weak to the point of non-existence. If this was 5 years ago, okay, but we've had decades. It's not like there's a glaring division in the consensus of scholars and historians on this, and those are the people I would pay nore attention to. If we want to take a step further and entertain conspiracies, okay, but what are they? that's the problem. Threads like this one had been going on for years on this forum and to date I've never read anything self-supporting. They all seem to be by-products of a high profile "fact is stranger than fiction" case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    I've yet to see one coherant theory that doesn't have swiss cheese holes in it. The mob theory - Ruby etc - is the one that gets the most attention but there are no ties to Oswald and the mob at all. Zero.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lets be honest, there are holes all over the subject at hand, including the final verdict. That's why this subject persists. Also you do not need to link Oswald to the mob. Both can be operating independently. But the mob did have ties to the CIA, especially around that time and there is documented evidence to this.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    OK so what is your understanding of what happened. By the way, i'm going to pick a part your response.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Loads of evidence yeah. CIA and the mob worked together for years. Doesn't prove anything regarding the assassination though.

    There are no ties to the mob with Oswald. Or the CIA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The widely accepted and established version of events is that Oswald acted alone. To date there are no other credible alternatives to that. Maybe something else did happen, but if you are claiming that is the case, then the onus is on you to demonstrate that. That's normal in history, investigation, everything.

    Conspiracy theorists turn that completely on it's head. They rely on denial of the event, i.e. "picking apart" a situation in order to hint that some conspiracy took place which they deliberately avoid detailing. It's important not to fall into that trap. For example, if I so wanted, you could never demonstrate the official version events of e.g. 9/11 to me, I could subjectively reject and attack all the evidence you provide and require everything explained to me down to the nth degree, and then still reject it. We've seen some posters literally do it for years, it's very simple to do once you know the techniques.

    If you have an alternative theory, I am genuinely all ears, but it is up to you to make the case for it.

    Of course, The Nal seems to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the whole affair, if there are specific parts you don't get, then direct those at him.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am holding for Dohnjoe and "his" findings on the JFK assassination........



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is no proof that Oswald shot JFK either. There is evidence.... There are ties for Lee Oswald to the mob in the fact that he was shot by somebody who was linked to the mob. If you wanted a "tie" to the CIA, the CIA recruited snipers and other personnel from the military during this time. Thats a "tie"



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The evidence points to Oswald and Oswald as the lone shooter. There are many historians and scholars who have studied this and there's a strong consensus. It's not like historians are divided on this issue, on the contrary.

    What is left? Conspiracy theorists who claim "something else" happened, but details of that "something else" are weak. Which is why we are having this type of discussion and no one in this 55 page thread has presented a credible alternative theory. When someone has no interest in exploring any alternative theory, makes excuses for doing so, but then requires other people to "prove" the consensus to them, that's a big red flag.

    Again, if there is a conspiracy theory you believe has merit, definitely share it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I believe the CIA were involved in some way, I think that's the most Credible theory concerning JFK.

    I know to an extent from researching Northern Ireland how shady the intelligence services are, MI5 were involved in killing a number ranging from dozens to hundreds of people in Northern Ireland by using proxies in the loyalist paramilitaries, it wouldn't surprise me if Oswald was a proxy or simply a guinea in the killing of JFK but I don't know enough on the subject to give a credible theory on what exactly happened but I believe the CIA were involved in some way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Okay, so what is the theory and timeline with the CIA? Were the other shooters, if so, who were they and where did they shoot from?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    In one you have an intelligence agency using sympathetic other groups to carry out their dirty work for them in attacking ememy groups of the intelligence agency. Not even slightly unusual situation and would expect to be a common tactic used in law enforcement, military, intelligence and even in the corporate world where you are just looking for information on your competitors but need a little bit of distance in how you gain that so you use a third party.

    In the other you have an intelligence agency using an outside individual to kill their boss. Why does the CIA want to kill their president, and why use Oswald?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭beachhead


    I will NEVER cease to be amazed by the ballistics experts on boards not to mind the out and out conspirator theories.It was 60 years.Forget it.It was not the first unexplained/unexpected death in the glorious history of the us of a.Not will it be the last.The u s of a were killing people everywhere before they declared a republic.They always will exert their warped authority/idea of reality.It's the only reason I rejoice at the empire of China who will tame the Yankees.The empire of the us of a is over.Forget Kennedy.Think Xi,Be Xi,Xi is.Don't forget to support your local chinky.Just be be careful they are not from Hong or Taiwan or Macau or ???



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Ruby ran strip clubs aswell. Maybe strippers killed JFK. Or barmen. Theres as much evidence to suggest that as there is the mob.

    Regarding Oswald, he was the only one on that floor. People saw him fire the gun. It was his gun, he brought it into the building, his finger prints were on the gun, and fibres of his clothing from the shirt he was wearing. And he fled afterwards. He had no ties to the mob.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I don't know much about the subject so I'd have to just take a wild guess on the questions asked without much knowledge.

    Why use Oswald? Likely the same reason MI5 would have used a member of a loyalist paramilitary from the Shankill Road to carry out an assassination rather than just order their army units to carry it out, I'm sure you can work out the reason for that one yourself.

    I always found it very suspicious and convenient how he was shot two days later in the police station, strange, now you will have the usual folk on here who will say to me, how is that suspicious? What exactly happened? Where is your proof? I don't have any I just simply find it suspicious, maybe there's nothing to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Its very suspicious and its whats keeps the theories going.

    But a few points on that.

    • Who silences the silencer? Ruby had a big mouth but no one killed him? Anyone who knew him says its laughable he'd keep a secret.
    • Why wait 2 days? Oswald had been in custody and interrogated for 2 days by this point. He may have already spilled the beans.
    • He was shot in the stomach. 90% ish survival rate.
    • Ruby was still in his house when Oswald was supposed to have been moved. And in Western Union standing patiently in line minutes before he shot him.

    Doesn't add up for me. Ruby just shot him on the spot. He was nicknamed "Sparky" for a reason. Wild temper.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wasn't positively identified as the shooter. If he was witnessed on the 6th floor then he wasn't the only person on the 6th floor. No proof that he brought the gun to the book depository. Not capable of pulling off the shot. Tied to the mob in the fact that he was taken out by the mob.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Was the only person on the floor at the time of the shooting. Told the 2 last people leaving to send the lift back up.

    He brought a long package with "curtain rods" into work, despite not having curtains. No curtain rods were found after. But a gun was found.

    Easily capable of making the shot. 3 shots in about 10 seconds. He was a trained sharpshooter.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If people have no curtains, sometimes they buy curtains .....

    But i was intentionally setting you up with this one. You assess that he is a trained sniper and could easily pull off that shot. Why did he pull off that shot when there is an easier shot to be had ? All trained snipers would have shot before the car turned left. They would not have waited to go for the difficult shot with the target moving away from them as well as being obstructed by a tree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Note how you are doing exactly what I said would happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    There was nowhere to put curtains in his rooming house.

    One of the things people do with the assassination is look at it in retrospect. You've done that here. Think of it happening live.

    When the motorcade turned from Main St onto Houston St (Oswald seeing the cars for the first time) he didnt even know which car Kennedy was in. Or where in the car he was sitting. He had to identify which car he was in and where he was sitting in the space of 50 metres to take the front shot. And then he had Gov Connally in the way, sitting in front of JFK. And there were 25 cars in the motorcade. Sun shining on the windshields, Secret Service flanking cars etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,044 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I missed this one. I don't think any "conspiracy" occurred, so am with the consensus of historians on the matter. I am open to conspiracies, but so far nothing credible or coherent has been presented here. As explained (multiple times now), individuals come to the thread to get others to "prove" the event to them which they'll just reject or pick at in order to hint that "something else" happened, without detailing that something else.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He had no were to hang his curtains therefore he shot the president😁

    First of all you have the police bikes which alert that the president is coming so you have time to prepare your shots. Secret service flanking either side of the car no so there is with no obstruction to the shot. Not only that but they are also an indication in which car the president is in. They are only in the way when the cars take the left, which is the hard shot......

    Governor Connally seat is lower then Kennedy's seat. That combined that the shot is coming from above. All of this gives you a perfect line of site, plenty of time with no obstructions. So the "trained" sniper waits for the car to be driving away from him. He has a tree in the way not to mention the Secret Service which have now become an obstruction (see that, i used your argument against you)

    Is he a trained sniper or what ?????

    By the way i dont look at it in retrospect. I actually went there, i was in the book depository. I was on the 6th floor. I walked the route. I spoke to people who were there. I spoke to relatives of people who were there.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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