What can be done about mass shootings in America?

I am afraid since I do not identify as conservative, or american, I am probably the worst person in the world to ask how they form policies - or how they should be forming policies :) I am however a scientist and into science so I can comment a little more confidently on that. And my only opinion is that we can not simply grab a single data point correlation and jump to any conclusions - let alone should we be forming policies - based off it alone. It's just a bad idea in many cases and I caution against it. It's simply rarely that simple when it comes to one single data point in a massive group of people.

I'd certainly like to see "action" in the US given the number of pointless deaths and often in people terribly young. I mean it is one thing when "gang bangers" off each other - tragic of course - but not quite on a level when children are shooting themselves or each other or getting shot by adults. But rushing headlong into action because of a single correlation data point is not something I would like to see happen. But I am neither a politician or a policy maker so what I want is irrelevant anyway :) All I can do is discuss the science of how a correlation should be treated and how caution is always warranted around them every time.

I do not think these words "fallacy" and "cliche" are useful here. Correlation not being causation is "cliche" only in the same way that "2+2=4" is. In that people say both of them a lot. But they say both of them a lot because they are generally true things to say. I think over time people have come to the weird idea the word "cliche" is derogatory or in some way means the thing being called a "cliche" is somehow less true, relevant, or useful because it is a "cliche". None of these things are correct.

It is interesting to wonder for example why this correlation holds true in some places more than others. Again I think it's because there are more factors in place. Do - for example - policies that allow more guns correlate with policies that favor the rich and disinfranchise the poor? Can that have anything to do with gun crimes? Do - for another example - crimes scale with ownership equally amongs states and if not why not? And equally with other countries - and if not why not? Does gun ownership in EU and SCandanavian Countries for example scale with crime in the same way? Again - if not why not.

Most of it is a moot point anyway as - which many people have noted too - the idea you're going to act on that correlation and suddenly take all the guns away is a closing a stable door not just long after the horse has bolted - but it's crossed borders, been eaten by a predator, and long turned into poo. That horse is _ long _ gone. So there too again it is worth looking at what else correlates with gun crime and find things we actually have a possibility to control and mediate.

I often wonder too if gun ownership correlates with good gun education or gun license policies. Some states in the US I am told - getting a gun is as simply as getting a pie down the local supermarket. How can that be good? I doubt it can. And where people get guns - are they shown how to use them correctly? Are they taught how to use them safely, render them safe, and to respect them?

I got a rare chance some time ago to take my then just under 10 year old daughter to learn how to operate and care for rifles. And she took to it really well and we have been doing it every since. Not something people get to do often in Ireland. I reckon she knows more about guns - their care - safe usage - and respect - than whole swaths of gun owners in the US who barely had to blink to get permission or a license to own their mini arsenal.

Yeah I think we are in agreement on much of that for sure! In fact you are saying the same thing I was trying to say earlier too. Though maybe you said it better. If there is a correlation between people who are more lenient on guns - and as you put it people who "are vehemently against assigning appropriate resources to the sociological issues" - then of course you are going to find a higher correlation between gun ownership and gun crime in that population.

The way I put it above is that often liberal gun politics could correlate with financial politics that favour the rich and disenfranchise the poor. But that is us both saying essentially the same thing in two different ways.

I have no idea what issues the US put into their kids alas. I remember the videos of the days when US kids were practising drills for when the bombs came during cold war times. I doubt that was any more psychologically nourishing than the videos you refer to :(

But there are so many things worth changing that a simple correlation between ownership and crime would tell us. I doubt for example that people against gun ownership etc etc would be for better and more respecful gun training in children. But after training my own daughter from age 9ish to now (11ish) I wonder how beneficial it could potentially be.

But I said this a couple of weeks ago - its weird the difference I experience when I talk to people in the EU who are open to owning guns and people in the US. Some of their words overlap. But so far in my solely anecdotal experience the "I need a gun - because at any moment I might have to protect my family" rhetoric I have only ever gotten from people in the US. Which suggests to me a complete different psychological narrative going on as well as everything else. A more simple fear in their nation than say Germany or Sweden or Switzerland etc etc?

The latest shooting. They bought a 9mm pistol as an early Christmas present for a 15 year old. How stupid can you be. Need to amend the amendment stipulating a minimum IQ before being allowed to bear arms...suggest it should be for well above average intelligence only. Won't even need safety courses then