Mica Redress

So it looks like the protesters aren't happy with what the government have come up with, even though this is the largest "compensation" scheme ever dreamt up. From my view, the offer is quite generous and really should be grabbed with both hands, and I'd happily take a grant of €145/sqft to build my house.

So where does the movement go from here? To be honest, I think it depends on how the media frame this offer. Up until now, the protesters have been treated with kid gloves and the freedom to present their story unchallenged. I think that is quite likely to change if they continue to seek further compensation.

Then again, the protesters calculus may be that they have nothing to lose by continuing on. The government is not likely to withdraw the offer of support should protests continue.

Jesus lads, you better be careful with all those comments about people looking for a free house, you'll get yourselves in trouble!

Oh wait, this is a real forum where you don't have to just toe the Donegal line, carry on so!

There should be zero coverage for investment/BTL properties, its an investment that went badly, thats life.

Well sure they could, but they want to get back exactly the house they bought/built, though of course at today's standards, and they don't want to have to pay anything.

They see it as unfair that they have to pay for something that they see is not their fault, but cant see why the rest of us would see it as unfair that we have to pay for something that was nothing to do with us, all while ignoring the fact that only one side ends up with a new house.

The way the debate has been run on the site on this issue has been disappointing to say the least tbh.

But yeah, the inclusion of investment and second properties was never a realistic ask. Especially not when there is a genuine housing crisis - the optics would be terrible. Rebuilding empty houses while renters struggle in Dublin?

I had long said it, on this thread and the other (before I too got banned...) That the campaign left itself with no escape route, because 100% "redress" for all was never going to happen for rebuilds. The organisers have made their own dignified climb down impossible.

The only debate allowed on the Donegal forum seems to be along the lines of "how can we avoid paying a single cent towards this".

Unless you stay in line the moderator will make accusations against you and ban you, its the definition of an echo chamber, its no wonder they are out of touch with how the public feel about this.

I don't think they have any intention of climbing down, they seem to genuinely believe that "the government" owes them a house and are oblivious to the fact that the government doesn't pay for anything, the tax payer does.

To be fair, the response to that is yes, but.

The blocks the builders purchased here were certified as being produced to a certain standard. I'm a bit hazy on the detail as it's a while since I looked into it, but the standard states that the blocks must be durable as an overarching catch all, but has particular laboratory tests that also must be satisfied. Mica was not a mineral specifically tested for. Builders bought materials that they had every right to believe were good.

Ordinarily, when a supplier sells a material that is defective, they are responsible for compensating the purchaser. The problem is that the SME with tiny capital created a multibillion euro liability. It appears that their insurance is also inadequate to cover it. That said, it also appears that the protesters have given up chasing the SME for the little money that they do have.

Their argument that the State is liable though is completely faulty however. Where regulations are breached, or even where regulations are defective, the regulator is never liable since they are a third party to a transaction. The reason there is a state assistance programme is for political and humanitarian reasons only.

I heard one lad on Claire Byrne talking about his 1600 sq ft house being just a small one and how difficult it was going to be for those with 'average' houses of 2600 sq ft. My heart bleeds.

While this is all true, I still do have to wonder if anyone ever actually checked the certificates....or even asked for them.

There is a long thread in helpdesk on the moderation of that forum. It's quite illuminating and will answer all your questions

Anyway, when you drill into the complaints that the posters have with the revised scheme, you can see that they are fairly groundless. One poster over there said it it would cost him an additional 51k so I assume he has a house around 2100sqft. SCSI gives a rebuild cost for basic finish for such a house, if say gutted in a fire of 281k. The grant offers 265k. Ok add in rent and storage of max 20k and that brings it up to 301, however you also need to deduct the salvaged windows, doors, sanitary ware, average kitchen, average wardrobes, average floor coverings and heating system that are also included in the SCSI figure and you start to come close to or below €265k.

This is a great deal for the homeowner. They need to recognise that they are being used by the investors and others who have been excluded to further their own agenda.

The Donegal forum running people out of town continues unabated. Several posters today have been run out of town with absolutely reasonable questions and no goading. And it's now a place where non moderators even rule the roost and run people out themselves. There is no moderation in it. Its the wild wild west.

Its not a forum at this point its a Facebook group. And it's a entirely poor representation of boards.ie

Wouldnt have been allowed to get to this point 3 years ago.

As emotive issue as this is you'd expect the moderation of the topic to be on point. But it quite simply isn't.

I heard Doherty again on the radio today threatening people of the nice option and the bad option. He wasn't abundently clear what the bad option entailed in detail. But it was basically do what we want or else.

Similar theme to the forum....

And just to add, that since no means or needs test has been applied, that €420k could be for a single person or couple theoretically.

And you're right, there is no real risk for the protesters in holding out for more. The government is never ever going to turn around and say "if you don't think this is good enough, then you get nothing at all". The State is a more mature actor.

The only way this issue gets resolved is if the media start to frame the ask as unreasonable. While they haven't done so to date, I think that may change, as the complaints are examined. Then again, the protesters will likely enter siege mode and determine that any change in narrative from the media is "Dublin media and government" attacking them.

Nothing to do with the many genuine cases of houses affected by Mica but I wonder will people who were going to use this issue to upgrade their McMansions with the blank cheque they were campaigning for now drop out when they realise it will cost them?

Or is the value still good for them to get for all intents and purposes a brand new house?

Why is it so hard for you all to imagine yourselves in our shoes, even just for a moment? Just a small bit of empathy. We bought our houses (mortgaged really), did structural surveys and were told all is well, to find out our homes will crumble in a few years.

If this happened to any one of you, you would be doing the exact thing we're doing. We don't want mansions, we don't want new kitchens, we want the house we're paying for to outlast our mortgage term.

What did your house cost?

How much was your initial mortgage?

How much were your rebuild costs according to your insurance cover?

I don't think anyone would have an issue compensating you for these amounts, what are they?

100k

90k

180k (173k according to scsi)

My home is about 1200sqft, 4 bedroom semi detached.

Based on the sliding scale, I can get a grant of (max) 167k. This doesn't include demolition or removal of demolition, nor foundation if it requires replacement.

You have a genuine case here and people will want to see you compensated. This is the sort of case that we should be hearing about,a regular person with a regular house.

Problem is though you are getting shouted over by the people looking for a blank cheque for their McMansion to be 100% rebuilt to the latest building standards.

I don't know if that's just a feature of Irish campaigning, but I have noticed that more and more of these protest movements (not just mica and pyrite, but they are the latest) are using children to put their point across.

I think it's a really low tactic to use children, who have no agency of their own, for political point scoring.