Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Climate Bolloxolgy.

1464749515282

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭emaherx


    The word whataboutery should be banned from this thread, as largely it makes no sense, the original topic raised is about how different sectors carbon emissions are accounted and an unfair loading placed on agriculture. Simply saying it is whataboutary seems like lazy counter argument that is thrown around all too often. Ironic that its constant over use has become a deflection from the debate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,093 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Get rid of cows and farm kangaroos. Leaner meat and less methane.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Good plan, the snowflakes will be too young to remember Skippy so no problem selling them kangaroo meat.

    If that fails sure some lad will take them to mix in with beef burgers instead of horse meat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭amacca


    agreed...whataboutery is very relevant in this debate. you cant blame farmer for this and tell them to change the way they do business and expect them not to say what about your multiple flights, massive construction projects, margin squeezing multinationals, companies producing pesticide resistant seeds that cant be saved so you can grow your own crops in perpetuity if you want to, trade deals that source food from areas where its less sustainably produced while squeezing already established domestic business that can produce it much greener, destructive carbon credit schemes, hyper processed muck controlled by a cadre very rich indivduals jetting round the world attending conferences attempting to control the food chain, importation of foods from here there and everywhere when the real answer is locally sourced foods at a price that leaves a margin for the primary producer......it should be nothing but repeated whataboutery because if this thing is going to be solved equitably its issues like those above that will have to be tackled rather than drive a group that are probably the solution into the ground.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭green daries


    I nearly swallowed my tounge the other day when I heard John gibbons looking for planned personal austerity 😂😬. I laughed so hard if anyone saw me they would have rang the physc ward for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,748 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    he gives me indigestion nearly as bad as when Eamon Ryan pops up on the Tele



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭green daries


    😂👌A perfect description an irritating man who has made a lot of money off the back of agriculture as for eamo jasus he is some dose



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    Neither do cows except on the rare occasion, they belch.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,093 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Quoting Ryan, now there's an own-goal, congratulations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭HerrKapitan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭amacca


    That to me doesn't necessarily say we should stop all beef production if that's what you think its saying. As I rewatch it....it seems to have included the process of slash and burn in the calculation of the carbon footprint of beef.....not much of that going on in ireland...its a complex topic and as good as the inanutshell videos are you couldnt hope to get all the nuance in a 10 minute video

    ruminants are part of a natural cycle....they are actually useful for the biodiversity of certain areas ....the video fails to address the potential negative consequences for the environment in the unlikely event everyone was to switch to a vegan diet....the answer doesnt lie in sudden dramatic shifts in diet but an incremental change...it also doesnt lie in zealous total eradication of something thats been in our diet for thousands of years and has existed in some form or other in that time...we have canine teeth for a reason (we are omnivores ffs)

    now over intensification/overproduction/waste and the primary producer being shafted to concentrate wealth and profits in the hands of a few.....that is a problem.....that would be my angle on the buy local thing.....cut the real driver of the problem out....or try to over time...farmers can work with nature if they are not driven to work against it and paid fairly for their produce....... but if you pay a guy poorly for his produce and force him to work against nature because of the system he is in then that is the real driver of most of the problems

    the video also fails fairly spectaculary in not mentioning that cropping means disturbing soil (tilling/ploughing etc which releases carbon - although there is a mention of the emissions for rice production) and lets assume everyone did move to a vegan or vegetarian diet do we really think there wouldnt be overproduction, more use of pesticides and huge release of carbon that way too, Id argue its potentially much more destructive idea than a mix of grass fed beef, poultry etc etc but paid for appropriately......the video did in fairness did speak about the energy density of food..but I would also wonder how much more crops we would need to produce an exclusively vegan diet for the worlds population given the foods wouldnt necessarily have the same energy density, that would surely bump up the amounts would would have to grow and the soil structure you would have to damage this releasing carbon etc etc


    it just doesn't sit right with me anyway...........I see much more beneficial behavioural changes that could and should be made to ameliorate climate change than attempting to make beef production a thing of the past but people dont want to hear about them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,642 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    With fertiliser prices through the roof, and even the product itself getting scare, how is that going to impact all the veg/corn products that vegetarians and vegans rely on for sustenance? Grass will still grow though animal numbers will probably have to reduce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    When the civil servants get enough food scarcity, they might reconsider the cutbacks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It’s hard to plough a field with a pencil.


    these bureaucrats haven’t a clue about food security. Europe has fantastic food production capabilities and yet they are rolling it into an era of food scarcity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    I think your first paragraph sums up the Irish thinking, as in it's not me it's the bad Brazilians with their slash and burn. No mention of all the soya and Maize based feed products that we use that comes from those same ex-rainforest lands that btw are being slashed and burned by mainly European companies



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 matt.v


    Buying local is a pipe dream, good butchers are few and far between and one's that slaughter their own are even fewer.

    All in all a lot of it boils down to the underappreciation of food in our society. The only thing people look at on the pack of meat is €/kg, most wouldn't care about where or how it was produced. When people are like that producing quality animals alone won't cut it, you have to be selling on a high quantity of them too. Flash back to the start of covid when people were buying all around them and returning to cooking hearty, traditional meals, or the yellow vest riots in France over food cost inflation. Most of the time people just take a constant supply of nutritious food for granted. Its pointless for the top to lecture down to farmers about cutting herd numbers when the whole rest of the system is stacked against you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Absolutely, it boils down to people talking out of both sides of their mouths

    Michael O Leary made an interesting comment last week during an interview, he said how Ryanair had offered the passengers the chance to offset the carbon used in the flight by making a voluntary "green" payment towards the carbon. Nobody took this up, people just wanted cheap flights.

    Same thing for food, they just want cheap and plentiful. They'll play lip service to the state of the Environment or global warming while chewing on a steak and ham sandwich in the over heated office but they will not pay a cent towards it.

    It'll take a lot more damage to the Environment before anything really gets done.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,599 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    If we are really serious about the climate we should have a greenhouse gas level scale that every product a consumer can buy has imprinted on its packaging/sale tag.

    For example a T bone steak from Argentina in Tesco swords has x greenhouse gas generated to put it on the shelf.

    A T-bone steak from the local butcher, who sourced locally, has x/2 greenhouse gas generated to put it on the shelf.

    Same with cars, clothes, all other food, etc etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Everyone wants change but no one wants TO change



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    One taxi driver shares his experience after switching to an EV for his business




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,303 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    A great short video from Cammy/The Sheep Game - Just Keep Farming.

    https://fb.watch/9DIZIv9KCN/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Hard to argue with anything he said. Probably one of the best summarisations of the whole debate really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭alps


    Had a look on the Opel site for info..


    You need to be staying in the city🤯




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ginger22


    If electric vehicles and the electricity they use was taxed @ the same rate as petrol and diesel would there be any savings and if the carbon emissions related to the electricity generation were accounted for would there be any reduction in carbon emissions. And what about the carbon emissions and damage to the environment caused by the manufacture of the electric car in the first place.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If electric vehicles and the electricity they use was taxed @ the same rate as petrol and diesel would there be any savings

    True but its not

    If the carbon emissions related to the electricity generation were accounted for would there be any reduction in carbon emissions.

    They are and the grid is getting greener every day. By 2030 its planned 70-80% of our generation will be from renewables, by 2050 100%.

    What about the carbon emissions and damage to the environment caused by the manufacture of the electric car in the first place.

    There is nothing that does not have emissions. Get dressed in the morning, emissions from manufacturing your clothes, packaging them, transporting them to the shop etc.

    Yes EV's have emissions coming from their manufacture. The answer to that is to transition as many people as possible away from private car use and on to greener forms of transport. In this case, its a EV taxi



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭deceit


    Volvo did a study (they are in a unique position as they make the same car in ev and full petrol). It should take until both cars pass 109,918 km before they break even as the production alone of an EV uses 70% more emissions.

    Running the C40 on the EU28 electricity scenario doubles the overall reduction in emissions to 30 percent and reduces the breakeven point to 77,248 km. And if you’re able to charge your C40 on renewable energy alone, the carbon footprint of the EV is half that of the ICE, breaking even in just over 48,280 km.

    The long term goal is to make it too expensive for anyone to own a car and we will just use public services and live in big cities.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The long term goal is to make it too expensive for anyone to own a car

    I think a better description would be that in the future, choosing to use the car will be the more expensive option, so if you have access to alternatives they will be the cheaper choice.

    Personally I drove for 20+ years and sold the car last year. Now I walk, cycle, bus, train everywhere. For the few times I absolutely must have my own transport, I use GoCar.



Advertisement